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Old 04-10-2007, 05:52 PM   #16
PedroBMW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notjoe
The compresson of air creates heat which is why i think it's placed after the blower.
yep, thats why I said an intercooler before the blower wouldn't do anything,


about the A/A or W/A intercoolers, I saw a guy on bf.c not long ago that managed to plumb in a FMIC to his vortech blower. It is doable, but like was said earlier its just to ****in big which makes routing the pipes less than ideal (still comparable to the routing A/A does though, which isn't great either like axxe said) but probably cost 1/4 of the price of the A/W aftercooler. That being said, if I had a non-intercooled/aftercooled S/C I would do everything I possibly could to get a FMIC in there cause the price of the aftercoolers is freakin crazy.
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Old 04-10-2007, 11:52 PM   #17
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Pedro, can you clarify your opinion of the difference between an aftercooler and an intercooler with regards to your post?
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Old 04-10-2007, 11:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroBMW
an intercooler cools between the s/c and TB too, its just a slang term that Air/Air intercoolers are called "intercooler" because technically its an aftercooler. An intercooler presupercharger would do nothing. I think the reason that most supercharger kits use air/water aftercoolers is because of the packaging issue, there just isn't much space.
Sorry I guess I should have made myself more clear to what i meant..they serve the same purpose yes but they mount in different locations.

I installed both AA rotrex and Vortech based kits, and personally I think the aftercooler makes more sense...because the AA kit's piping goes around the engine bay making it more cluttered, and the location ofthe bypass valve is in the worst location for lowered cars or cars driven with shitty roads. ...the downside of the aftercooler is working on the car, especially the ICV on OBD2 cars.

EDIT: I should have read everything again, Axxe basically posted what I just did....jonny_blaze FTL on this one.
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:35 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everlast
Pedro, can you clarify your opinion of the difference between an aftercooler and an intercooler with regards to your post?
If your referring to my first post, its not my opinion I was just commenting because the of what johnny blaze had said but he has since corrected himself. An intercooler and aftercooler are both just heat exchangers located after the compressor and before the throttle body (they accomplish the same purpose). Aftercooler is an Air to Water heat exhanger meaning the heat transfer is from the intake charge too some coolant. An intercooler is an Air to Air heat exchanger meaning that the heat is transferred from the intake charge to the ambient air rushing by the intercooler.

Technically both should be called an aftercooler by true definition, however Air to Air heat exchangers in FI applications are called intercoolers instead. However the true definition of an intercooler is a heat exhanger located between compressors in a cycle with multiple compressions. But anyway none of this shit is important just a little factoid i guess.
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:56 AM   #20
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Ah, i get you now, i just wasn't used to using the term aftercooler for a air-to-water intercooler.. Gotcha. I had begun wondering what a beforecooler was.

To me, the after-school-special lesson learned is:

Air / air intercooler is easier to build, parts are easy to get and cheap and is effective. On a turbo it is likely you are running the intake air from the exhaust side to the intake side already, so adding an intercooler adds only a marginal amount of air volume.

Air / water intercooler (or aftercooler) is more complex. The actual charge pipe location cooler can be expensive. The system needs a water pump and additional reservoir, in additional to the radiator. However, while the total component space is about equal to the air setup, the items are spread out and easier to layout in a tight fitting engine bay. Also, a s/c setup could be running on the intake side only, so this could be better to keep that charge pipe short.

I bet that miscalculating the radiator, cooler or water volume would be easy to spot in a water based setup, whilst I would hazard that a majority of the air setups on this earth are the wrong size, etc, but it is difficult to tell by any easy-to-point-to factors.

I would love to do a water setup using the transmission cooler section of the radiator as the water's radiator. I installed an auto rad in my manual for just this reason.

Optionally, it would also be super cool to build a new intake to adapt an air intercooler directly into the intake.
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Old 04-11-2007, 11:37 AM   #21
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So what about a misting unit? I've reading about these and they seem to kill two birds (or at least help). Placed after the S/C (so in the charged air) they help cool the charge, and slow the burn (water/ethanol mixture I believe - winter window wiper fluid was suggested).

Anybody using this? Good? Bad?
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Old 04-11-2007, 11:46 AM   #22
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I believe they're good. I think The Sly did water injection, perhaps? Not sure actually.
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Old 04-14-2007, 03:40 PM   #23
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I am changing my opinion after re-reading the section on intercoolers in the book Supercharged! that misting unit are not good. If properly intercooled, you shouldn't need a misting unit.

Excellent book, btw, written by Corky Bell (of Maximum Boost fame) and is fairly recent and very relevent. They do a custom s/c a BMW in it, too.
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Old 06-06-2007, 11:11 AM   #24
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To get a customer charge cooler made your are looking at about 3000 ($5500 USD) It is not a simple job

Steve
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Old 06-06-2007, 11:12 AM   #25
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I have water injection and also CO2 on my engine

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Old 06-06-2007, 11:43 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modifiedm3
To get a customer charge cooler made your are looking at about 3000 ($5500 USD) It is not a simple job

Steve
What is it made from.. gold?
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Old 06-06-2007, 11:51 AM   #27
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no aluminium. lots of work involed. Much more than people realise.

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Old 06-06-2007, 11:55 AM   #28
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Seems crazy though.. I've seen new front clips built for Busch cars for less money.
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Old 10-08-2007, 04:34 PM   #29
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Quote:
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To get a customer charge cooler made your are looking at about 3000 ($5500 USD) It is not a simple job

Steve

3000 quid is more like 6300 usd
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Old 10-08-2007, 04:52 PM   #30
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i dont have either..
my kit doesnt need it stage 1..
stage 2....yes
hey just curious, where did you get your supercharger and installation?

and how much if you don't mind..
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