Click to go to Forum Home Click to go to maXbimmer Home

Go Back   maXbimmer Forums > Misc > Off-topic
User Name
Password


Welcome to Maxbimmer.com!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-13-2002, 04:41 PM   #16
Dave 325i
4th Gear Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: .
Posts: 888


Quote:
think of the consequences????
Yeah, think of the consequences. Like maybe supporting bin Laden and arming them with Stinger missiles in the 70s wasn't such a good idea. Like maybe supporting Iraq and giving them biological agents in the 80s wasn't such a good idea. Like going into Vietnam wasn't such a good idea. Like relying on warlords on the ground in Afghanistan for intel and calling in airstrikes on convoys and civilians wasn't such a good idea. The Bay of Pigs invasion didn't turn out so well. Embargoes on Iraq still?

Quote:
how would you feel if thousands of innocent canadians were killed for no reason in a sheer act of terrorism?
I doubt highly there was "no reason" for the attacks.

Quote:
and im not just talking about the world trade center, we were attacked unprovoked at pearl harbor too incase you forgot that.
Around 3000 servicemen died. You guys ended dropping two atom bombs on Japan in the end taking out 150 000 civilians instantly and many more later from radiation sickness. Not exactly an eye for an eye. It ended the war, but maybe, just maybe there was a better way.

Quote:
we americans stand up for what we believe in and are not afraid to! it just must be since all the other countries in the world hate us, canadians must too i guess
So you ignore Kyoto. Ignore the landmine treaty. Wrangle your way to special rights in the International Criminal Court. Arm the Israelis to the teeth and let them bomb civilian centres. Standing up for what you believe in is not always the best thing. First you have to consider what "standing up for" entails, and whether "what you believe in" is really worth it.

Hitler stood up for what -he- believed in. In fact the terrorists that attacked the US on September 11th were standing up for what they believed in. These are people that didn't consider the consequences of their actions.

I am not a huge fan of conspiracy theory. But as I get older it seems that nothing is at it seems anymore.
__________________
Dave 325i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2002, 05:14 PM   #17
E36COMPACT
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 228
I agree with MKgino, Empowered, Rolled-Out and Dave325i, .....this topic makes my blood boil but im definately glad to see that the collective "canadian" view is a lot more informed and intelligent than the GI Joe mentality that most Americans seem to have. People who think this is about "democracy" and the fight for the "free world" against "evildoers" are a product of what the "guys calling the shots" want them to be....uninformed and blindly led. There are so many directions that we can take this conversation and the more you learn about this stuff, the more frustrating it gets. Aside from the obvious things like American foreign policy and their ruthless campaigns to control world resources, here is a simple question with regards to the trade centre situation.....WHY THE HELL DID THE AMERICANS NOT INTERCEPT COMMERCIAL AIRLINERS AND WHY WERE FIGHTER JETS SCRAMBLED UP WAY TOO LATE???? its a good and simple question to ask....im not gonna pretend to know for sure...but i have a few ideas....Aside from this, you have to look at American culture in general and see what they "stand for". The sad truth is, Americans and their allies (of which there are only a couple....i wont name names as to not insult anyone...but the rest just jump on the bandwagon) have marched around the globe killing more innocent civillians like savages out of control than any other people in history. Im sick of hearing Pearl Harbour this and that.....for Gods sake.....what about the rest of the world??? That's the thing...America has commercialzed war and a whole lot of other things for that matter and its citizens are blind to it (and thats exactly what its leaders want) Western media has done an excellent job as portraying all their enemies as evil because it is so easy to do so.....it's easy to label someone as evil who is a lot different than you are.....it comes to the point where Entertainment Tonight gives out BS stories on how crazy Saddam Hussein is and his various "phobeias" Give me a break....I know im going off on a rant now but i can literally think of a couple hundred things to say on this subject.....and for those of you who are really interested in it....i really recommened you go watch a movie called Bowling For Columbine by Michael Moore.....its playing in limited theatres and i think its at sqaure one right now....but im not sure....its an amazing movie and it will answer a lot of questions people may have...if not that...it will make you think....and if you wanna see a video (911 unanswered questions) go to the guerillanews network.
E36COMPACT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2002, 06:58 PM   #18
sirex
King Sirex
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,850
well said dave, i was about to make a big ass post on a bunch of that stuff to but then read what you posted
__________________
sirex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2002, 08:08 PM   #19
mkgino
6th Gear Member
 
mkgino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,686
Yes, well said. That vid really pissed me off. No regard for human life what so ever. Its one thing to take out key installations, but another to purposly waste 20 bombs on one person for what looked like the fun of it.
__________________
mkgino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2002, 09:00 PM   #20
mike125k
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 226
Send a message via AIM to mike125k
im sorry i ever posted my opinions since obvoiusly canadians are so much more well informed about all other countries than anyone else. what about all the illegal immigrants and poor who we feed and shelter, why not just kill them if we are such savages, and why doesnt canada get such in influx of illegal immigrants sneaking into their country if its so great? just about every day in the summer theres a news story of people trying to sneak from canada into the US. im through with this conversation now so make fun of my country all you want because i dont care what you people think.
__________________
1991 318is aka: the torque-less wonder!
mods: TSW Hockenheims, H&R springs, Bilstein shocks, Supersprint exhaust, Jim Conforti chip, K&N, Z3 short shifter conversion, custom made strut tower brace
1988 Ford Ranger STX
mike125k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2002, 09:05 PM   #21
mkgino
6th Gear Member
 
mkgino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,686
Quote:
Originally posted by mike125k
im sorry i ever posted my opinions since obvoiusly canadians are so much more well informed about all other countries than anyone else. what about all the illegal immigrants and poor who we feed and shelter, why not just kill them if we are such savages, and why doesnt canada get such in influx of illegal immigrants sneaking into their country if its so great? just about every day in the summer theres a news story of people trying to sneak from canada into the US. im through with this conversation now so make fun of my country all you want because i dont care what you people think.
Haha, because you have no comeback. Your great country has done so many terrible things to others in the name of profit, not freedom. Look at the vid of what they were doing there, acting like it was a video game just blowing up anything in sight. What illegal immigrants that pour in?? Its all propaganda to show you are a peaceful nation when we all know that all you guys to is cause wars in order to profit from them. Its a known fact that all empires in history have come to an end, but its gonna get particularily nasty when americas does.
__________________
mkgino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2002, 09:46 PM   #22
Dave 325i
4th Gear Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: .
Posts: 888
Quote:
Originally posted by mike125k
... because i dont care what you people think.
*sigh*
__________________
Dave 325i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2002, 10:17 PM   #23
Kal
maxRealtor
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Posts: 3,756
Send a message via MSN to Kal
In the defense for the americans...There abviously should be some retaliation for 9 - 11...whether its through military action or through sanctions...

And for Mike...what u fail to realize is that Canadians are helpin in this so called 'war on terrorism'...Canada has always been a great supporter of America; I believe one of America's greatest allies

I however do not agree with what president Bush is doing with Iraq. Many americans disagree wtih how Bush is dealing with the situation in the Middle East as well....

Kal ...

just my 0.02 cents
Kal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2002, 11:41 PM   #24
AlpWhitE46
is a pimp
 
AlpWhitE46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Etobicoke
Posts: 9,099
Send a message via MSN to AlpWhitE46
Kal, do you not understand, that is the war on terrorism...those were 10 people who didnt use their minds, and used the minds of terrorists to cause such harm on people....
10 people.!! They had a reason to do that...it was because america had done something to them also...
so this means America Should get to bombing a country right away ??? Give me a ****ing break...
Yugoslavias president was an idiot, and did poor stuff for the country...what did the u.s do, they stepped in and started ****ing bombing them and hit so many innocent people syaing they were ****ing accidents....for what reason, just because of the president....Thus meaning if WE dont like BUSH....hey how about we BOMB America ?
just an idea.
AlpWhitE46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2002, 12:04 AM   #25
E36COMPACT
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 228
Mike125k...I don't think it was anyones intention to insult you personally....its just that the topic itself can get many people fired up. I think everyone here wanted to voice their own opinions on it and that's all. In terms of us making fun of your country...come on man...I think there was a lot more to peoples comments than that......As far as illegal imigrants? so what are the stats?? Let me guess...you're not sure....just a statement right? In general, I think most of us in the west have a very skewed and misinformed understanding of the world. People in a "democracy" should be more vocal and really begin to question what's going on.
E36COMPACT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2002, 12:09 AM   #26
E36COMPACT
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 228
guys while we're on the topic...i just got this in my email today....read the stuff on the bottom.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg gulfwars.jpg (134.1 KB, 64 views)
E36COMPACT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2002, 01:36 AM   #27
Kal
maxRealtor
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Posts: 3,756
Send a message via MSN to Kal
Quote:
Originally posted by AlpWhitE46
Kal, do you not understand, that is the war on terrorism...those were 10 people who didnt use their minds, and used the minds of terrorists to cause such harm on people....
10 people.!! They had a reason to do that...it was because america had done something to them also...
so this means America Should get to bombing a country right away ??? Give me a ****ing break...
Yugoslavias president was an idiot, and did poor stuff for the country...what did the u.s do, they stepped in and started ****ing bombing them and hit so many innocent people syaing they were ****ing accidents....for what reason, just because of the president....Thus meaning if WE dont like BUSH....hey how about we BOMB America ?
just an idea.
alpwhitee46..i agree with u totally but let me explain the difference. The reason why afghanistan is being bombed is because of the al-queda..Mind u..that half the afghanistani's there on the side of the U.S. and are fighting other afghans who are defending Bin Laden and his 'network'

Do not get my statements confused...This is just a defense for america.. i do believe they should've taken a different approach. however, from patriotic americans, unless a war on al queda was not hapenning, there would be a big up roar and many americans would have felt that nuthing was being done.

What u guys may find interesting is that if u watch RAMBO .. lol...the americans are on the side of the afghans..lol...and they refer to them as strong willed people. Now afghanistan is the evil side...lol...ironic

kal

Last edited by Kal; 12-14-2002 at 01:38 AM.
Kal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2002, 01:56 AM   #28
TheBestCow
1st Gear Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: College: Rome, GA Hometown: JC, TN
Posts: 22
Send a message via AIM to TheBestCow
As a young American I feel it necessary to simply say my piece (peace?) and let that be that.

I read all of the posts, but it was about 15 minutes ago and I've been thinking of something to say in response so if I'm not exactly spot on, please forgive me.

In general, I don't agree with blaming "Americans" (i.e. all of us) for what our military forces are doing throughout the world everyday, Afghanistan included. "Well vote!", you argue. Even then, you can't blame all of us. I wasn't of age to vote in the last Presidential election. And when you come down to it, it's really like choosing the lesser of the two evils. If you believe that if Al Gore were in office that none of this would've happened, I believe you'd be wrong. This may be completely off topic of what you guys were talking about, but I felt the need to say it.

I'd also say that the 3000 or so people killed in the World Trade Center attacks, in most likelyhood, had nothing to do with American foreign policy (nor am I saying that was the intent of the attacks). I believe most of the victims on that day were simply going about their lives, trying to live happily in a place they considered great.

Kal is probably right with his statement that a large section of the American population doesn't agree with what is going on. And the fact remains that there isn't much they can do about it, now or for the near future. Can you really see the American, or any democracy for that matter, doing a complete turn around in the way it is run? You simply can't expect that in a short span of years, that who runs the military would change, or how our political system is set up would change either. It's going to take decades, maybe centuries before that happens (granted this is assuming we don't nuke each other to dust).

About the video... I would guess the one guy saying Boom Bang, or whatever that gibberish was, would be that's "how it's done" with those crews. It may be said to mark that they were indeed the plane in the area firing said bomb; I don't know I'm not in the military, nor am I claiming I have any knowledge of how things are run. Simply an opinion. And about pinpointing individuals... what would you say if that individual was Hitler, Osama bin Laden, Stalin, etc. etc. etc.? Or if one of those vehicles wasn't filled with high ranking officers of a terrorist organization? I'd say it might be worth it to go ahead and take them (although sending in a helicopter with perhaps machine guns might've been cheaper, whatever). I say the cost is worth it - however, my opinion doesn't matter. If I stood up right now and said "Hey! You're wasting money!", would they listen? Of course not. I am simply one guy amongst the masses.

mkgino - would you kindly name the significant wars the US has been involved in every year since Vietnam? Note that I'm not trying to say you're wrong, I just can't remember them all.

About the media... I agree, but I would go further than to say "American media" only are the ones that are bought out. I pretty much think all media is controlled, which obviously isn't a good thing.

daytona - What you mention may be unfolding... someone else's plans? Who knows... CNN is reporting that the US is saying Iran is now working on nuclear weapons. Click here for that report. That would give you two countries next to each other "supposedly" working on nukes.

Rolled Out - you do make the good point that we are all speculating, we really don't know too much personally.

E36Compact - To your comment in all caps... are you saying that the first sign that a plane is having some sort of problem (perhaps they have lost their navigation equipment, etc.) that they should send up a fighter jet and blow it out of the sky? If you go with what the media says, and what common sense for me says, this is how the first two planes on 9/11/2001 happened. They were taken over by terrorists. The pilots were told to head towards this or that (in general back towards NY). If you are the pilot what are you thinking? I'd be thinking maybe they're going to land us at NY and ransom us. Maybe we're going to Iceland. Who knows. As the pilot I'd be thinking, I don't want that bullet to go through my head. So they head begin back towards NY. Or maybe they killed the pilots and flew the planes themselves. Anyhoo, flight controllers now pick up that plane #1 isn't headed on intended course. So maybe they radio and ask what is wrong. I would assume the terrorists turn the radio off to prevent getting a warning out that they have been hijacked. But as the flight controller, especially since this had never happened, your first thought isn't "They've been hijacked and are going to hit the world trade center, blow them out of the sky." That just isn't logical.

Again I don't believe you can blame an entire country's population for what it's government does. Blaming "Americans" for starting wars and "running around like savages" isn't exactly fair to those citizens. If you see the American political system "as it is" (no behind the scenes banking families running things, or whatever), they still aren't fully accountable. They may have voted for said President, but they aren't the ones calling the shots. But I discussed that earlier.

In closing I'd just like to say I am saddened to see such an anti-American feeling from some of whom I would consider our Candian brothers to the north.

And please don't flame me.
__________________
Kevin

--1995 Boston Green Metallic 318is coupe, 150,000+ miles--
Mods : Kenwood MP-8017 MP3 Receiver *Clears*TC Kline Trackline Spring/Shock Combo*Ground Control RSMs
BMW CCA Member
Quotation of the indefinite length of time: "Messing in the affairs of women is like trying to stop an avalanche with a lighter." - Me
TheBestCow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2002, 02:01 AM   #29
MP328
Krv Svoju Za Bosnu Moju
 
MP328's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brampton
Posts: 2,583
Send a message via MSN to MP328
Quote:
Originally posted by AlpWhitE46

Yugoslavias president was an idiot, and did poor stuff for the country...what did the u.s do, they stepped in and started ****ing bombing them and hit so many innocent people syaing they were ****ing accidents....for what reason, just because of the president....Thus meaning if WE dont like BUSH....hey how about we BOMB America ?
just an idea.

that story goes just a bit longer then what u made it. i'm from bosnia and know it took the world 5 years and after a few hundrer thousand dead people to do something about it. and that first after my country started to get everything back from the other side. then the americans stepped in and stopped it. and why? because bosnia is over 60-70% muslims.

and that president is now at a war tribunal waiting to get it up the ass dry
MP328 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2002, 02:08 AM   #30
mkgino
6th Gear Member
 
mkgino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,686
Quote:
Originally posted by MP328



that story goes just a bit longer then what u made it. i'm from bosnia and know it took the world 5 years and after a few hundrer thousand dead people to do something about it. and that first after my country started to get everything back from the other side. then the americans stepped in and stopped it. and why? because bosnia is over 60-70% muslims.

and that president is now at a war tribunal waiting to get it up the ass dry
How do you feel about Kosovo, just wondering.
__________________
mkgino is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Maxbimmer Copyright 2001 - 2015