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Old 11-23-2006, 12:52 PM   #31
Mystikal
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I'm sorry, but I have to co-sign with what Terry is saying and go completely against what some of you have posted.

This is not an SUV. It is a unibody, raised 5-series. The AWD system is not made to handle ANY sort of off-road conditions, and doing so poses a seriously high risk of damaging the vehicle.

If you don't want to believe me, here's some information on how the xDrive system works: A multiplate clutch spilts the power bewteen the front and rear differentials, and that is where the mechanical linkage ends. From here, the power is controlled by ABS sensors, which simple apply the brakes to wheels which are losing traction. This system works fine on high-friction surfaces (namely pavement), but using it in mud or even very deep snow will very quickly overheat the brakes, and badly. This system has no sort of locking differentials or even limited slip ones. I've seen the damage done to E46 Xi's stuck in deep snow, and it's not pretty.

Sean, I'm assuming you know your family's new wagon capabilities, and just took it carefully into that mud patch for the pictures and don't intend to do any sort of real off-roading. This is more in response to the people posting that it is an SUV and it should be off-road, a completely false statement.
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:59 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystikal
I'm sorry, but I have to co-sign with what Terry is saying and go completely against what some of you have posted.

This is not an SUV. It is a unibody, raised 5-series. The AWD system is not made to handle ANY sort of off-road conditions, and doing so poses a seriously high risk of damaging the vehicle.

If you don't want to believe me, here's some information on how the xDrive system works: A multiplate clutch spilts the power bewteen the front and rear differentials, and that is where the mechanical linkage ends. From here, the power is controlled by ABS sensors, which simple apply the brakes to wheels which are losing traction. This system works fine on high-friction surfaces (namely pavement), but using it in mud or even very deep snow will very quickly overheat the brakes, and badly. This system has no sort of locking differentials or even limited slip ones. I've seen the damage done to E46 Xi's stuck in deep snow, and it's not pretty.

Sean, I'm assuming you know your family's new wagon capabilities, and just took it carefully into that mud patch for the pictures and don't intend to do any sort of real off-roading. This is more in response to the people posting that it is an SUV and it should be off-road, a completely false statement.
Ditto.
I merely stated that the X5 is not made for any offroading, anything past a gravel road, or a foot of snow, is past its capabilities. I was merely stating that it is a HIGH performance, raised, AWD Station wagon, which has many other qualities which are to be enjoyed(speed and so forth). It is NOT and 4WD strong machine.

I didn't mention anything about who's car it is, or whether or not Sean should be driving it, or whether or not he cares about it. It is none of my business and I don't have any right to say anything with regards to it. He is lucky that he has mom and dad to buy him such expensive things, I, as many others have to work hard for the things we own.
ANYWAY, to paraphrase, keep the X5 on the road, because IT WILL not last, it is not made or meant for that. If you want to go offroading, you are better of buying a 500$ suzuki sidekick. I will teach you to take it places that 70000H2's can't.

Cheers
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Old 11-24-2006, 02:27 AM   #33
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BMW has a vid on how to take off road,SEAN you should post a link for this man...
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Old 11-24-2006, 05:06 AM   #34
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The intelligent all-wheel drive system xDrive delivers maximum driving dynamics and traction by distributing engine power between the front and rear axles variably and instantaneously. The central element is an electronically controlled multi-plate clutch which reacts in a split-second to any change in road conditions. The higher pressure on this clutch, the more power is transferred to the chain-driven front axle; the lower the pressure, the more distance there is between the clutch plates, and more power is transferred to the rear axle.
This variable power distribution system has a positive influence on the self-steering behaviour of the vehicle equipped with xDrive. In contrast to conventional all-wheel drive systems, xDrive uses the sensors of the Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) system to constantly gather important information about the vehicle's performance, such as the rotation speed of the wheels, the angle of steering or position of the accelerator. This information is processed immediately, enabling xDrive to ascertain if your vehicle is about to over- or understeer, and it takes corrective action if necessary.
If xDrive identifies understeering on a bend, i.e. the front wheels of the vehicle are beginning to drift towards the outer edge of the bend, the system reduces the amount of power reaching the front axle and raises the amount reaching the rear wheels. If a vehicle is oversteering, i.e. it could spin around completely because the angle of steering is too acute, xDrive channels power away from the rear axle to the front axle. The result? Increased directional stability, better roadholding, more accurate steering and easy control even in extreme situations.
DSC is activated only when xDrive cannot maintain stability by itself: DSC cuts engine output and activates individual wheels as necessary. When travelling on surfaces with contrasting road-holding conditions, i.e. alternating between packed ice and loose snow, drive power is variably transferred to the axle with better traction. This ensures the best possible performance and excellent handling regardless of the prevailing conditions, and optimum control is guaranteed even on slippery surfaces

See Xdrive is a mechanical system, it just calls on DSC to gain info on what wheels are slipping, and IF need be, calls on dsc to counter what it can't, also the version of DSC on Xdrive vehicles is not the same....

as for off-roading, we had an X5 before, and let me tell you this, there was very little that We came apon that would stop it, and that was the pre-Xdrive system, which wasn't as good, I also remember a time when we had to get in a neighbourhood that was under A LOT of snow, we are talking BIG TIME ammounts, the only two vehicles that made it in AND out were the X5 and a Tahoe that had serious snows on it, X5 only had the all seasons.

Think about this too, the X5 was developed at a time when BMW owned Land Rover, that's why it has Hill decent control. Tell me this, since when do you put HDC on a vehicle that is not able to handle itself off-road? hmm? there is NEVER a time you are going to need that on the street....

Don't believe me that they can handle themself's off-road? watch this:





Check out the X3:







Not bad for completely stock "Lifted 5 series wagons" ??? BTW those X5's are the 4.8is's not the 4.4's or 3.0's, and those are the tires and wheels that come stock on the vehicle....

btw, i do not believe that anywhere does it state that the X5 or X3 for that matter, share the 5 or 3 platform? where are you getting this from Jay?
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Old 11-24-2006, 05:16 AM   #35
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Some more interesting vids:



Check out this one, right at the begining, show what she can do, nuff said:

http://www.autoclips.net/video/play/5146
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Old 11-24-2006, 09:57 AM   #36
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You can show me 10000 videos of an X5 doing things that I can do in my Volvo, and I still will not warrant it any respect in the offroad aspect.
That system is JUNK, for anything other than onroad snow, gravel roads, and the occasional mud one may encounter in a construction site on the way to soccer practice, or a business meeting.
I would like to see this thing articulate, off camber, in MUD (not 'muddy' puddles), and climbing a rock or two. Until you show me that, repeatedly, over a LONG period of time(because this system WILL grenade itself after a while, even IF it could), then maybe, I will give it 1% of credibility.
Now, those videos prove nothing, that stuff that a Rwd Jeep on bald tires can do. I can go to youtube, and show you several videos where X3's (one of which is a car TV show (with the british guy)) where the X3 is a complete JOKE in a environment, that is close to what "off roading" is.

Anyway, the point is, enjoy your car, do whatever the hell you want, but don't make a CAR do more than its supposed to.
Regards,
Terry
PS. Sean I am not fighting with you, just a heated bumsekz debate.
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Old 11-24-2006, 09:57 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul christians
SUVs are to used for what is for,not a city SUV............OH have fun with shit flying OK......WOW there is so many people here that say so much shit about how to drive and where to drive,it is a 4X4 is it not,he has not taken it hard core off road at all...........SEAN have fun with it man...........hehehehehehehehehe....So if it snows for 10hrs and you 8" of that,so you stay home whan you have an X5.........NO f.....king way I go and play...............OH 1 more thing it is not CR-V or any of those pieces of SHIT...........and it is not the 530 any more..........so he can play TRACK & FIELD anytime,anyplace.....................
Seriously, were you drunk?

I can't believe I missed this...
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Old 11-24-2006, 10:20 AM   #38
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^

Hey Terry, you seem to know a lot about 4x4 and off-roading. I needed a larger vehicle to tow a trailer, so I bought an SUV. I was looking at a Jeep Grand Cherokee or the Chevy TrailBlazer LT 4x4. The X3, Tribute/Escape, Equnox, Vue etc donít cut it for me.

Iíve taken the Jeep Grand Cherokee in a farm mud pit; the kind where if you stepped into it, your shoes would come off. No car or wagon would have made it through there.

Would the TrailBlazer be similar to the Cherokee if I locked it in 4HI or 4LOW?
Do you have any comments on the capability of the 4x4 system on that? I would never try the stuff you do (still too nice to do that.. hee hee), but just wondering.
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:41 AM   #39
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I am by no means an expert in 4wheeling, but I have learned a lot since I left the BMW community(car wise) in favour of 4x4's.
The Grand Cherokee, is possibly one of the best SUV's out there(currently) which can take the abuse of actual four wheeling. Period. They are solid front and rear axles,providing for a great articulating vehicle from the factory. They are also much stronger, with I believe an 8.25 Chrysler outback(there are higher options available as well, not sure what you have). The 8.25 is a good axle, and semi strong. As with everything it has its weak points, but overall, for what you use it for(towing, occasional light offroading,) it will do fine.
Now, as far as the Chevy's are OK, not better than the Jeeps. Anyone that wants to do some offroading, switches out the front IFS suspension, in favour of a solid axle, and in many cases, ditches the stock transfer case, for an older dodge, jeep, or ford transfer case.
They, are just pretty town SUVs. They can be pushed, but don't expect much from them. Just like the newer yukons/suburbans, etc, they are a joke when it comes to offroad capabilites(which they should have, seeing how the old ones were decent).
The grandcherokees are still new, but give them a few years, they will be transformed into monsters, just like Cherokees.
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Old 11-24-2006, 01:14 PM   #40
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^^ Im asking for my buddy he is looking into buying at Cherokee 1990 and wants to turn it into a bogger. His budget is 6k after he buys it. Any suggestions for him on what to get.
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Old 11-24-2006, 02:40 PM   #41
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ZOMG thread Hyjackers O NOES!!! LOL


By no means am I saying that the X5 or X3 for that matter can do what "purpose built" trucks can do, I fully admit that if I had to climb up rocks or do some DEEP mudding, the X5 is not what you'd do it it, although with some modification it can be done just fine. Remember too that your truck terry started out life just like the X5 pretty much, that is to say, luxury SUV that when needed could be taken off road, i mean you have more "off roading goodies" like transfer cases, LSD's and so on, had the X5 been given that it certainly would be much better off. All in all what I am trying to get at is, is that even though this vehicle is not a "hard core" offroader by any means, it can go where you could not go with a car or van, It has decent ground clearence for what it is, as well as a AWD system that works just as good in the mud/snow as it does on the pavement (that is to say, a fairly decent rounded out system). Would I take this if I were going to go where you took your jeep? No not without mods. Would I take it out exploring with some buddy's on a off road track that does not have obsticals like giant mud pits, rocks, fallen trees? Most definatly. Don't worry, I know what this vehicle can and can't take, and would never exceed those limits cause I respect the truck as well as the fact that If I break it, I have to figure out how im going to pay to fix it .

PS. I actually quite enjoy "debate's" like this, I think that it's a good thing in fact, as long as It does not resort to name calling and stupid immature shit like that, it might be different if I did not know you in real life, and if I only knew you online but, I know that at the end of it, you are still a nice guy, maybe a bit "strong willed" hehe but that's all good, im like that too.

now back to the posting of pics, I think im gonna see if I can't find some Urban locations maybe this weekend and snap some shots of the truck where it spends 90% of it's life... haha
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Old 11-24-2006, 04:04 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant118
^^ Im asking for my buddy he is looking into buying at Cherokee 1990 and wants to turn it into a bogger. His budget is 6k after he buys it. Any suggestions for him on what to get.
He should have bought mine.

Anyway, if he is looking for a trail rig only, tell him to get 4.0L, 91(HO engine), with NP231. Tell him to look for a D44(usually towing package) or atleast an 8.25 Rear axle.
He can get one for cheap, and then the possibilities are endless.
tell him to check this site out, and ask questions there.
It is a Cherokee site only.
www.soxja.org
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Old 11-24-2006, 05:13 PM   #43
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thxs ill forward the info to him.
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Old 11-25-2006, 10:47 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hound
The intelligent all-wheel drive system xDrive delivers maximum driving dynamics and traction by distributing engine power between the front and rear axles variably and instantaneously. The central element is an electronically controlled multi-plate clutch which reacts in a split-second to any change in road conditions. The higher pressure on this clutch, the more power is transferred to the chain-driven front axle; the lower the pressure, the more distance there is between the clutch plates, and more power is transferred to the rear axle.
This variable power distribution system has a positive influence on the self-steering behaviour of the vehicle equipped with xDrive. In contrast to conventional all-wheel drive systems, xDrive uses the sensors of the Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) system to constantly gather important information about the vehicle's performance, such as the rotation speed of the wheels, the angle of steering or position of the accelerator. This information is processed immediately, enabling xDrive to ascertain if your vehicle is about to over- or understeer, and it takes corrective action if necessary.
If xDrive identifies understeering on a bend, i.e. the front wheels of the vehicle are beginning to drift towards the outer edge of the bend, the system reduces the amount of power reaching the front axle and raises the amount reaching the rear wheels. If a vehicle is oversteering, i.e. it could spin around completely because the angle of steering is too acute, xDrive channels power away from the rear axle to the front axle. The result? Increased directional stability, better roadholding, more accurate steering and easy control even in extreme situations.
DSC is activated only when xDrive cannot maintain stability by itself: DSC cuts engine output and activates individual wheels as necessary. When travelling on surfaces with contrasting road-holding conditions, i.e. alternating between packed ice and loose snow, drive power is variably transferred to the axle with better traction. This ensures the best possible performance and excellent handling regardless of the prevailing conditions, and optimum control is guaranteed even on slippery surfaces
Sean, that long spiel of PR you just posted is exactly what I said.

There is a central multiplate clutch, and some ABS sensors. There is no mechanical direction of power otherwise. If the car becomes bogged down in deep mud/snow and 3 wheels have no traction, do you know what xDrive will do? Apply those 3 brake calipers hard enough to stop the wheel from spinning, which causes the power to channel to the 1 last wheel. What happens if it takes more than a few seconds for the car to free itself, or even more likely, that 1 wheel gets stuck also? Serious brake overheating as the driver mashes the gas pedal some more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hound
Think about this too, the X5 was developed at a time when BMW owned Land Rover, that's why it has Hill decent control. Tell me this, since when do you put HDC on a vehicle that is not able to handle itself off-road? hmm? there is NEVER a time you are going to need that on the street....
Marketing. I see it worked on you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hound
Don't believe me that they can handle themself's off-road? watch this:

Not bad for completely stock "Lifted 5 series wagons" ??? BTW those X5's are the 4.8is's not the 4.4's or 3.0's, and those are the tires and wheels that come stock on the vehicle....
The fact that they were on summer tires should tell you enough; those trails were not challenging at all. Some members here will remember a couple years back when I installed super-long coilover springs on my E30 and had ~8" of ground clearance. I managed much worse than those videos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hound
btw, i do not believe that anywhere does it state that the X5 or X3 for that matter, share the 5 or 3 platform? where are you getting this from Jay?
From the splash page of http://www.x5pros.com/:

"The BMW X5 was first sold in 2000. Classified as a mid-sized luxury crossover SUV, the BMW X5 is based on the BMW 5-Series E39."
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Old 11-25-2006, 01:58 PM   #45
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It is nice to see BMW's marketing works on people, and actually fools them to trully believe.
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