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Old 11-12-2006, 04:01 PM   #1
Gleb
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E30 to E30 M3 Brakes

Is it worth doing it? Converting to E30 M3 brakes.

Does anyone have any exp. with it?
How $$$ will it be?
Aside from better wheel and brake kit choices, are there any other benefits?
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Old 11-12-2006, 07:28 PM   #2
Ian Sheppard
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Night and day difference...

I have and 88 M3 and an 89 325is, and the 325 brakes are scarry compared to the M3.

You'll need front hub assemblies, calipers, rotors, and rear trailing arms. I think you can swap your rear flanges too instead of the entire trailing arm, but I'm not sure.
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Old 11-12-2006, 08:31 PM   #3
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You also get bigger/better wheel bearings and the front sway bar mounts differently.
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Old 11-13-2006, 12:16 AM   #4
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The e30 brakes are more than enough for daily driving and even tracking. There are many people who participate in track events like lapping days etc. with STOCK brakes.

Once the brakes are well maintained they work well and if you need better brakes there are tons of aftermarket rotors and pads you can use to better your brakes.

I am doing the 5 lug swap for two reasons.
1. Because I would like to have a bigger assortment of wheels to choose from and 2, to run bigger brakes (e36 M3) since I am building and installing a 220hp 3.5L BMW engine into my car. I wil turbocharge it as well and so need as much traction (wider wheels) and brakes for my track car.

e30 M3 suspension parts are hard to come by, especially clean ones going for over USD 1,000
I am using the e36 ti trailing arms and e36 m3 front struts and spindles with camber/caster plates.

As Ian said, the e30 m3 rear hubs/flanges can bolt up onto the stock e30 trailing arms. The offset of the e36 is different but you can compensate for this. E36 m3 parts are more plentiful, thus cheaper.

If you need any info on doing the e36 m3 swap let me know.
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Old 11-13-2006, 06:20 PM   #5
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^^^ Thanks man, good info.
Like you, I will also be getting more power out of my E30 sometime soon, so I want bigger, better brakes.
Wheel choice does not concern me very much, as I found out that if one is willing to pay (and I am) there ARE choices out there.
It seems that only Ireland Engineering makes a BBK for E30s, but I've heard mixed reviews. UUC been promising to make one for a while, but who knows when that will happen. Also there is a guy in Montreal, Massive Lee, I think he calls himself, that makes something for our cars, but I know nothing about him or his company.
Should I decide on getting the E30 M3 brakes, I will get it new from a dealership in Germany, I can get a relatively good deal over there.

Speaking of wheels, I was thinking of running 16x8 or 16x9 for the E30. Yes, I know I will need fender flares, but it's a track car only, so it's fine. Reason I am thinking about 16" is that there is so much more tire choice for 16". Any thoughts on that?
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Old 11-13-2006, 09:10 PM   #6
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there is actually LESS tire choice for 16" comparing with 15 and 17s

also, why would you go staggered on an e30? not like you are putting in a 500hp LS1
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Old 11-13-2006, 09:32 PM   #7
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in addition: have you done the brake ducts?

from talking to a lot of people who track their cars, i realized that if you do the following things you don't really NEED bigger brakes, as the car is not that heavy

- good pads (special racing type that you can swap in at the track)
- lines
- good fluid
- fresh blank rotors
- proper bedding proceedure
- brake ducts
- introducing a "cool down" time at pits for every so many laps to let brakes cool down
- rebuilt calipers, new MC (maintenance stuff)

in addition you can lighten the car up to make it easier on brakes
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Old 11-13-2006, 10:04 PM   #8
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I agree with Static.

I was thinking of going 16" as well since I may be sponsored by Toyo who carries
16" tires. I may have to go with 17" because of the clearance issue with the e36 M3 brakes I might use.
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Old 11-13-2006, 10:17 PM   #9
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There is MORE tire choice in 16" when it comes to fat tires, like 225-265, specially in R-comp, which I plan to start using as soon as I destroy a new set of street tires, which should be by the end of next year.
I am not going staggered, it will be the same size all around, I am just trying to decide if It should be 8", 8.5" or 9" wide.
True, the car is light and will be much lighter for next season, but it will also be more powerful, around 240bhp, I know it is not a lot, but with a J-Stock suspension and much wider foot print it should handle much better, don't you think?
With heat/dust shields removed, Carbotech pads, Motul 6 brake fluid and proper bleeding I still overheat them when it's hot outside.
Eng., tranny, diff., will be done sometime next year, so before that I will try slotted rotors and probably some kind of a brake cooling kit, I'll see how it goes. Also, larger overall tire will brake better.
I am just trying to think ahead and while looking around for a BBK, I see that there isn't much out there for us 4 bolt guys, but tons of kits for the E30 M3.
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Old 11-13-2006, 10:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by static
there is actually LESS tire choice for 16" comparing with 15 and 17s
what world do you live in?
There are very limited number of tires in the 225/50r15 size, basically two reasonable priced ones. Falken512s and Fuzions (which aren't that great). They do have a toyo's T1Rs, but those prices are really inflated since there aren't many choices in that size.

For 16's 225/45r16 you have a TON more choices!
Nexens, Hankooks, Toyo's, more falkens, goodyears, khumo, basically all the tire manufacters out there offer a good tire in that size.



Quote:
Originally Posted by static
also, why would you go staggered on an e30? not like you are putting in a 500hp LS1
Also if you read his post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gleb
Speaking of wheels, I was thinking of running 16x8 or 16x9 for the E30. Yes, I know I will need fender flares, but it's a track car only, so it's fine. Reason I am thinking about 16" is that there is so much more tire choice for 16". Any thoughts on that?
you see that he says OR, not AND, so i donno where you see him indicating he wants a staggered setup.


He could have ment, 16x8 all around or 16x9 all around.




Also please refrain from making it sound like you are stating facts, when you clearly are not. Let the more experienced people who know what they are talkin about answer the questions.

I know you mean well, but you end up confusing the person asking for advice with your opinionated propaganda, which sometimes makes half sense, but must of the time doesn't and there are much better solutions out there.




Clearly its going to be advantages to getting better brakes, but you'd have to out weight the cost, also take it case by case. You said it yourself, even with your "Setup" he's going to need "Cool down time" between laps, then that obviously means the brakes could be better.

That said, depending on how much power he's planning to make. If he was to upgrade, he should do it right the first time. e36 m3 brakes on e30 m3 hubs (few other possible combinations he could use) and either m-coupe trailing arms, or jus e30 m3 trailing arms with upgraded brakes (mcoupe, but again he has other possible options also).

to go e30 m3 brakes all around i think the gains are marginal, and dont justify the cost......unless of course you some how magically find e30 m3 parts for really cheap, then by all means he should do it. But the average person, probably not.
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Old 11-13-2006, 10:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Dot_E30

That said, depending on how much power he's planning to make. If he was to upgrade, he should do it right the first time. e36 m3 brakes on e30 m3 hubs (few other possible combinations he could use) and either m-coupe trailing arms, or jus e30 m3 trailing arms with upgraded brakes (mcoupe, but again he has other possible options also).

to go e30 m3 brakes all around i think the gains are marginal, and dont justify the cost......unless of course you some how magically find e30 m3 parts for really cheap, then by all means he should do it. But the average person, probably not.
I can find E30 M3 parts relatively cheap, but nothing magical, about 20-25% off.
What would you recommend doing, is the E36 M3 set-up best for our cars, what other options are out there? I don't mind spending money on it.

Oh, and give Alex a brake (no pun intended), he is a good guy.
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Old 11-13-2006, 10:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Dot_E30
unless of course you some how magically find e30 m3 parts for really cheap, then by all means he should do it. But the average person, probably not.
Frugal; I said frugal!
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Old 11-13-2006, 10:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gleb
I can find E30 M3 parts relatively cheap, but nothing magical, about 20-25% off.
What would you recommend doing, is the E36 M3 set-up best for our cars, what other options are out there? I don't mind spending money on it.

Oh, and give Alex a brake (no pun intended), he is a good guy.
The e36 m3 5 lug and brake swap has it's pros and cons.

Cons:

1. The front struts had a different castor so caster/camber plates are a must to retain that of the e30 This is not a big deal if you ae seriously thinking of tracking you car, I am, you will want to adjust the camber for different tracks.

2. You have to change the control arms to the 97 e36 m3 as well.

3. You need at least 17" wheels, ONLY IF GOING WITH THE E36 M3 Calipers.

Pros:

1. You can use bigger rotors and calipers than the e30 m3

2. Parts are allot cheaper and more readily available.

3. If you want to go crazy, you can even get a BBK for this as well.

E30 M3 stuff on the other hand is all plug and play, direct swap.

If you give me some time, there is a big brake manufacturer I am in business with, they are coming out with a neat piece of technology, I can share this with you when it's on the table.

If you can get the e30 M3 components cheap from Germany, hat a great option.
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Old 11-13-2006, 11:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gleb
What would you recommend doing, is the E36 M3 set-up best for our cars, what other options are out there? I don't mind spending money on it.
Sorry i couldn't find the list for the front setup.

The rear is from an MZ3. (mcoupe)

Complete trailing arms, left and right.
Brake rotors (same as e36 M3 rear)
Brake calipers
MZ3 halfshafts (much larger/beefier then the e30 unit)
MZ3 diff output flanges (much larger bolt pattern then e30 units)

I do not remember the exact parts for the front, and i can't remember everything off the top of my head, couldn't find it atm, and didn't wanna spend too much time searching for it.

But i think it was basically, e30m3 spindels e36m3 brakes...but im going blank and only faintly remember something about a spacer for the rotors or hub or something and currently can't remember if the e36m3 calipers/bracket bolts up directly to the e30m3 hubs or if anything custom was required.

Also for that setup, you'd need 17'' wheels to clear the brakes........but the car would stop on a dime, and would handle any future power you throw at it using widely available OEM pads and rotors which is a big plus compared to an aftermarket BBK with that kinda potential.
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Old 11-13-2006, 11:08 PM   #15
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hmmm, how did my "Setup" deserve to be quoted and capitalized? Do i detect sarcasm spawned by jealousy?
Oh, i must have missed the newest breakthrough in the modern automotive suspension technology: "the slammed front rake, yo"

i think you need to cool off. I've misread word "or", what's with you jumping at my throat every opportunity you get?

Also I know that Gleb plans to make his E30 a track dedicated and i'd bet he'll spring for R-comps on it or at least ultrahigh-performance summers. What I said is true for those tires - go do research if you don't believe me.
Go to tirerack and choose the size 225/45r16, then check off 3 checkboxes: extreme, max and ultra-summers, how many hits? 2
Then go do the same for 225/50/15, how many hits? 8
which one is higher? need i say more?

What facts and oppinionated propaganda you speak of? please elaborate.
so far Raph had agreed with me. You call him propagandist too?

"do it right the first time" you say? after which you recite your version of "the right" setup, which by the way you don't have and i doubt you've experienced. And after that you call my suggestions oppinionated? gimme a break
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