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Old 11-04-2006, 03:16 AM   #1
Hartge H26
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e30 m50 supercharged

I've been throwing possible engine ideas around and everyday is a new decision as to which way I am going to go. What i am thinking is doing a m50 with a supercharger instead of the e36 m3.

The motor is much cheaper and easier to find, and adding a supercharger is going to be faster than a stock m3 motor, it should be cheaper than going the m3 route.

Does anyone have good pics of what it will look like in the engine bay of a e30 and what needs to be moved in order for it to fit. Will I be able to keep my A/C or do I have to remove it to put an intercooler.

I found some good stes on the base conversion but nothing much on adding a supercharger after the conversion has been done.

thanks
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Old 11-04-2006, 08:24 AM   #2
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you'll have to get rid of A/C if you want it to stay even close to balanced weight. M50 is around 50lb heavier than m20, plus all the S/C hardware - another ~50lb.
Or just put a whole bunch of subs in your trunk - up to you.

supercharging is going to make it even more peaky than it already is, not sure if thats what you are looking for. Perhaps non-vanos + turbo would be a better idea


Alex
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Old 11-04-2006, 09:23 AM   #3
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Alex,

What are you talking about... you were making the same comments when I posted that I will be keeping my A/C with my S50 swap. Your comments are absolutely not true. The difference in weight from M20 to S50 are marginal and since he already has the A/C there is no real difference. I am not sure where you are getting your logic from, but my car is absolutely capable with the swap and it will be when I go with the S/C kit.

H26 - depending on the power levels you are looking for your reasoning is right on. Don't worry the handling will not be effected by this swap or the addition of A/C and S/C.

Here is a pic of what a potential swap will look like.



Good luck.
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Old 11-04-2006, 10:26 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by CleanE30
Alex,

What are you talking about... you were making the same comments when I posted that I will be keeping my A/C with my S50 swap. Your comments are absolutely not true. The difference in weight from M20 to S50 are marginal and since he already has the A/C there is no real difference. I am not sure where you are getting your logic from, but my car is absolutely capable with the swap and it will be when I go with the S/C kit.
Thank you.

No one on this forum can feel the 41lb weight difference between an M20 and a 24v.

And Alex, how the hell does a supercharger make an engine "peaky"? A roots-type blower would make the bottom end much stronger, and a centrifugal would smoothly ramp up the power until redline. Nothing peaky about either. And on that note, how in your mind is an M50 peaky in the first place?

And to the thread starter, a properly done S/C M50 will cost more than a simple S50 swap, unless you have free labour/fabrication on your side and custom build something. And even then, your resources better be experienced or you're looking at reliability issues.
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Old 11-04-2006, 11:05 AM   #5
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I want to do it right. Doing this half ass only shows up in the end of the job. Even if I have to just to the m50 swap and put the charger on at a later time.

Does anyone know where I can find details about putting a charger on a m50 in a e30 chasis.

If I buy a e36 supercharger kit how well does it work in the e30 chasis or do I just but the charger on ebay and fabricate the rest. If so what charger should i look at getting.


Any and all info/comments are welcomed.

Thanks
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Old 11-04-2006, 05:49 PM   #6
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talk to mr.mtech.....hes on here but hardy is online.....he S/C'ed his s50 and its running great i hear...if i remember is with him the company that he got the supercharger from worked with him in the installtion...most of the companies that make the superchargers for the m50 etc are made for an e36 application so they say they wont guarantee the supercharger will be reliable or even work on an swapped e30 application....so yes its best to get it installed properly or ur screwed up teh ass.

i wanna do the same thing
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Old 11-04-2006, 07:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by static
you'll have to get rid of A/C if you want it to stay even close to balanced weight. M50 is around 50lb heavier than m20, plus all the S/C hardware - another ~50lb.
Or just put a whole bunch of subs in your trunk - up to you.

supercharging is going to make it even more peaky than it already is, not sure if thats what you are looking for. Perhaps non-vanos + turbo would be a better idea


Alex

lol,

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Old 11-04-2006, 08:20 PM   #8
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Go for it, it will make for a very fun to drive E30. The weight "problem" can easily be remedied by slightly stiffer front springs, it's not a big deal at all. Like Jay (Mystikal) said, most will not notice a difference. Only Alex would notice the detrimental effect it has on handling, we call it "placebo."
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Old 11-04-2006, 09:55 PM   #9
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I am not concerned about the weight. I have Hartge front & rear sway bars, upper stress bar,HD Bilstein, and hartge Springs. The car handles like it's on rails.

Does anybody actually have a E30 M50 s/c
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Old 11-08-2006, 01:32 PM   #10
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You're probably already bottoming those front HD's with the M20, a supercharged 24v will only make it worse.

Get shorter shocks and maybe stiffer springs first.
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Old 11-08-2006, 02:35 PM   #11
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I have the same suspension Hartge uses for their H35 (M30) setup.
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Old 11-08-2006, 03:21 PM   #12
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no need to hate on my comments

i'll explain myself:
a) 325i are nose biased from factory
b) difference between engines is roughly 50lb
c) AC is roughly 50lb
d) supercharger hardware is roughly 50lb (depending on the unit of course)
e) if you don't give a shit about weight distribution, you got the wrong car for wrong reasons
f) my car plows and locks front inner wheel at auto-x both in my and Randy's hands due to nose weight bias (and yes, i do have a pretty good suspension setup)
g) obviously i meant non-roots and non-TS type supercharger being peaky, which it is as it develops boost gradually.
h) don't give me the "on rails" comment as every man's "on-rails" is different

now instead of and , why not have a civilized argument? i have my mind open, do you?

Last edited by static; 11-08-2006 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 11-08-2006, 03:47 PM   #13
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yes, and to the OP: i recommend what i recommended because that what i would do in your shoes, take it or leave it.
'92 non-vanos (that you can get for cheaper than vanos) has stronger valvetrain than vanos motor (maybe even stronger than S50/2), no rattling problems of vanos (read about these on bf.c, how people had been fighting these problems since like 97 and still have not come up with a solution that actually fixes the problem). The non-vanos engine also has the strongest rods of m/s50/2, making it a great candidate for boosting. (forged crank would help even more). Now of course, you won't be getting extra torque in low-mid range of a vanos motor, but having a good turbo or TS setup, you won't need it (vanos that is).
There is a guy named UrineMachine on bf.c who did this setup and is very happy with it (may even help you with turbo manifold), documented it thoroughly and very helpful guy in general. (he has e34 tho)

just food for thought

also, while we are on topic, if you are really aiming for the RIGHT suspension setup at the front, do this:
http://www.e30m3performance.com/tech...comp/index.htm

Last edited by static; 11-08-2006 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 11-08-2006, 03:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by static
no need to hate on my comments

i'll explain myself:
a) 325i are nose biased from factory
b) difference between engines is roughly 50lb
c) AC is roughly 50lb
d) supercharger hardware is roughly 50lb (depending on the unit of course)
e) if you don't give a shit about weight distribution, you got the wrong car for wrong reasons
f) my car plows and locks front inner wheel at auto-x both in my and Randy's hands due to nose weight bias (and yes, i do have a pretty good suspension setup)
g) obviously i meant non-roots and non-TS type supercharger being peaky, which it is as it develops boost gradually.
h) don't give me the "on rails" comment as every man's "on-rails" is different

now instead of and , why not have a civilized argument? i have my mind open, do you?


Alex, you are making a much bigger deal of the weight issue than it really is. Stiffer springs up front and it becomes unnoticeable.

And if the wheel is locking, that means you are braking, and as for plowing, you need to add more front camber and change your driving habits a bit. I used to think my car was plowing like a bitch, changed the way I set the car up for turns, and it's all but gone now.
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Old 11-08-2006, 04:02 PM   #15
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^^ you could be right (except for fact that i had full negative camber around 3deg that day), i am not pretending to be a great driver, that's why i got Randy to try the car out.

Last edited by static; 11-08-2006 at 04:13 PM.
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