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Old 02-07-2006, 02:15 PM   #46
jstalin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickFinga
Again, you are missing the point. It is not illegal to insult jews, gays, blacks. It is illegal to deny occurrence of the holocaust during WWII.
Again, it is illegal in Germany, Austria and some other European countries. It is though perfectly legal in Canada and USA.
But it is illegal to slander jews/blacks/gays. It's part of our nation's hate crime bill, you should take a read of it.

All the same, why is one not allowed to deny the jewish holocast (but perfectly okay to deny the Polish, Russian or Gypsy holocausts), which is religious slander nonetheless, but it's perfectly cool to mock muslim religion?

If a paper in Canada drew a cartoon offending one of above formentioned groups, that paper would be sued, fined, and possibly shut down. Why the double standard?

Freedom of expression isn't truly free, for better or worse, so the same rules have to apply across the board.
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Old 02-07-2006, 02:18 PM   #47
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Look at any cartoon either on tv or in our papers. Politicians are slandered or made fun of, Jews and Blacks are famous jokes of our cartoon shows on tv. I don't see where you see this double standard?
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Old 02-07-2006, 02:22 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by born slippy
Look at any cartoon either on tv or in our papers. Politicians are slandered or made fun of, Jews and Blacks are famous jokes of our cartoon shows on tv. I don't see where you see this double standard?
Show me a (recently) published cartoon with a big lipped black slave serving his massa or a big nosed jew clutching a bag of money on the aushwitz train or a cartoon of two gay lovers getting their faces kicked in by nazi punks.

edit, better yet, since you mentioned politics, find me a cartoon making fun of Sven Robinson's sexual orientation even. You can't. Why? Because gay & jew rights trump muslims
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Old 02-07-2006, 02:27 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by M3ti Compact
That is still not a vaild excuse of their actions.

I agree.
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Old 02-07-2006, 02:27 PM   #50
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I found this little nugget to be pretty interesting!

Quote:
The Danish newspaper that published the caricatures of Muhammad refused to carry cartoons lampooning Jesus of Nazareth, The Guardian revealed on Monday.

' In April 2003, Danish illustrator Christoffer Zieler submitted a series of unsolicited cartoons dealing with the resurrection of Christ to Jyllands-Posten.

Zieler received an email back from the paper's Sunday editor, Jens Kaiser, which said: "I don't think Jyllands-Posten's readers will enjoy the drawings. As a matter of fact, I think that they will provoke an outcry. Therefore, I will not use them."

The illustrator told the Norwegian daily Dagbladet, which saw the email: "I see the cartoons as an innocent joke, of the type that my Christian grandfather would enjoy."

"I showed them to a few pastors and they thought they were funny." '
Now, why is it that the same paper and editor could think this clearly about this series of cartoons and not the others? No double standard you say? Pants!
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Old 02-07-2006, 02:42 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstalin
But it is illegal to slander jews/blacks/gays. It's part of our nation's hate crime bill, you should take a read of it.

All the same, why is one not allowed to deny the jewish holocast (but perfectly okay to deny the Polish, Russian or Gypsy holocausts), which is religious slander nonetheless, but it's perfectly cool to mock muslim religion?

If a paper in Canada drew a cartoon offending one of above formentioned groups, that paper would be sued, fined, and possibly shut down. Why the double standard?

Freedom of expression isn't truly free, for better or worse, so the same rules have to apply across the board.
Anyone can be sued for slander, doesnt have to be race related.
Denying holocaust is religious slander??? What holocausts have anything to do with religion??
We dont know what would've happened if those cartoons were printed in Canada. Its a completelly different country with difference laws. You can't compare Danish newspaper to Canadian one.

Same rules do apply across the countries.
In USA, you pretty much can say whatever you want anywhere you want.
Canada on another hand is a bit more strict about that. You can not promote hate propoganda here to masses, but I can say whatever I want in private company.
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Old 02-07-2006, 02:43 PM   #52
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Let set this thread on fire?
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Old 02-07-2006, 02:45 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstalin
I found this little nugget to be pretty interesting!



Now, why is it that the same paper and editor could think this clearly about this series of cartoons and not the others? No double standard you say? Pants!

The editor for that paper was fired. An apology was issued.


The argument here is not whether the newspaper was in the right or the wrong. The problem is with the extreme reaction, and what has been going on around the world as a result. Just look at some videos of the rallys/protests. Violence, homemade bombs, fires...
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Old 02-07-2006, 02:47 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstalin
Show me a (recently) published cartoon with a big lipped black slave serving his massa or a big nosed jew clutching a bag of money on the aushwitz train or a cartoon of two gay lovers getting their faces kicked in by nazi punks.

edit, better yet, since you mentioned politics, find me a cartoon making fun of Sven Robinson's sexual orientation even. You can't. Why? Because gay & jew rights trump muslims

Show me a cartoon mocking muslims in a Canadian newspaper.
You can't.

We wouldnt even hear about those cartoons if muslims all over the world didnt start rioting.
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Old 02-07-2006, 02:49 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickFinga
Anyone can be sued for slander, doesnt have to be race related.
Denying holocaust is religious slander??? What holocausts have anything to do with religion??
The term holocaust in this sense is universally accepted as the 'jewish' holocaust. The holocaust was about the German persecution & anhilation of the jews, if that's not religious based I don't know what is. Say what you want about the 'other' holocausts.

Quote:
We dont know what would've happened if those cartoons were printed in Canada. Its a completelly different country with difference laws. You can't compare Danish newspaper to Canadian one.
International reaction would have been the same. If it's not such a big deal, why hasn't any major canadian papers published them?

Quote:
Same rules do apply across the countries.
In USA, you pretty much can say whatever you want anywhere you want.
Canada on another hand is a bit more strict about that. You can not promote hate propoganda here to masses, but I can say whatever I want in private company.
You certainly cannot publish or say publicly racist or hate-inciting statements, which is what this whole debacle is about. If portraying the prophet as a suicide bomber isn't inciting hate to the masses, then I don't know what is.

The bottom line is, the newspaper started the fight, the victims will finish it. All this vested outrage is directed at the wrong group here.
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Last edited by jstalin; 02-07-2006 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 02-07-2006, 02:58 PM   #56
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Muslim image is tarnished anyway in the eyes of Europe and US...which will only get worse IMO. I think the muslims are digging their own grave with this...

Oh, jstalin, youre talking about a double standard? There were tons of controvercial "art" created.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecce_Homo_%28exhibition%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo_Mama%27s_Last_Supper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ

There was one more, a painting by Jorgen in Denmark as well...He painted amural of Jesus with an erect penis.
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Last edited by BMW_7; 02-07-2006 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 02-07-2006, 02:58 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstalin
The term holocaust in this sense is universally accepted as the 'jewish' holocaust. The holocaust was about the German persecution & anhilation of the jews, if that's not religious based I don't know what is. Say what you want about the 'other' holocausts.
You said denying holocaust is a religious slender. It is not. Holocaust was about religion, but denying it has nothing to do with religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstalin
International reaction would have been the same. If it's not such a big deal, why hasn't any major canadian papers published them?
I wasnt talking about international reaction, I was talking about what happened to the newspaper. I also never said it was not a big deal. You seriously, not reading what Im saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstalin
You certainly cannot publish or say publicly racist or hate-inciting statements, which is what this whole debacle is about. If portraying the prophet as a suicide bomber isn't inciting hate to the masses, then I don't know what is.
Again, you are not making any sense. STOP COMPARING CANADA TO DENMARK.
What's illegal here doesnt mean its legal in Denmark.
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Old 02-07-2006, 03:01 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstalin

The bottom line is, the newspaper started the fight, the victims will finish it. All this vested outrage is directed at the wrong group here.
And at the end Muslim's reputation will be ruined even more. Good job.
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Old 02-07-2006, 03:06 PM   #59
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so sick, what exactly is your stance on the issue, if I may ask?
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Old 02-07-2006, 03:09 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstalin
so sick, what exactly is your stance on the issue, if I may ask?

My stance?
I really don't think those cartoons should've been printed in a mainstream national paper, but Muslims are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over reacting.
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