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Old 02-03-2006, 07:33 PM   #16
notjoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMetal
A lot of the interview conducted by Non-american news agencies have show that the majority of the population didn't have a real problem with the pre-war society. They didn't see themselves as not being free.
You consider living under rule of someone who executes people who defie him as being free?

More often than not i hear stories of how they (the people of iraq) are glad he is gone (saddam) and how he has executed some if not all of their family members which arent coming off CNN.

But back to the tread topic, "Support the Iraqi resistance ". To me that sounds like you guys want to support the people who are kidnapping people in iraq and trying to force the US out. After all, are they not the resistance ?
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:35 PM   #17
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Past Repression and Atrocities by Saddam Hussein's Regime



For over 20 years, the greatest threat to Iraqis has been Saddam Hussein's regime -- he has killed, tortured, raped and terrorized the Iraqi people and his neighbors for over two decades.

When Iraq is free, past crimes against humanity and war crimes committed against Iraqis, will be accounted for, in a post-conflict Iraqi-led process. The United States, members of the coalition and international community will work with the Iraqi people to build a strong and credible judicial process to address these abuses.

-- Under Saddam's regime many hundreds of thousands of people have died as a result of his actions - the vast majority of them Muslims.

-- According to a 2001 Amnesty International report, "victims of torture in Iraq are subjected to a wide range of forms of torture, including the gouging out of eyes, severe beatings and electric shocks... some victims have died as a result and many have been left with permanent physical and psychological damage."

-- Saddam has had approximately 40 of his own relatives murdered.

-- Allegations of prostitution used to intimidate opponents of the regime, have been used by the regime to justify the barbaric beheading of women.

-- Documented chemical attacks by the regime, from 1983 to 1988, resulted in some 30,000 Iraqi and Iranian deaths.

-- Human Rights Watch estimates that Saddam's 1987-1988 campaign of terror against the Kurds killed at least 50,000 and possibly as many as 100,000 Kurds.

-- The Iraqi regime used chemical agents to include mustard gas and nerve agents in attacks against at least 40 Kurdish villages between 1987-1988. The largest was the attack on Halabja which resulted in approximately 5,000 deaths.

-- 2,000 Kurdish villages were destroyed during the campaign of terror.

-- Iraq's 13 million Shi'a Muslims, the majority of Iraq's population of approximately 22 million, face severe restrictions on their religious practice, including a ban on communal Friday prayer, and restriction on funeral processions.

-- According to Human Rights Watch, "senior Arab diplomats told the London-based Arabic daily newspaper al-Hayat in October [1991] that Iraqi leaders were privately acknowledging that 250,000 people were killed during the uprisings, with most of the casualties in the south."

-- Refugees International reports that the "Oppressive government policies have led to the internal displacement of 900,000 Iraqis, primarily Kurds who have fled to the north to escape Saddam Hussein's Arabization campaigns (which involve forcing Kurds to renounce their Kurdish identity or lose their property) and Marsh Arabs, who fled the government's campaign to dry up the southern marshes for agricultural use. More than 200,000 Iraqis continue to live as refugees in Iran."

-- The U.S. Committee for Refugees, in 2002, estimated that nearly 100,000 Kurds, Assyrians and Turkomans had previously been expelled, by the regime, from the "central-government-controlled Kirkuk and surrounding districts in the oil-rich region bordering the Kurdish controlled north."

-- "Over the past five years, 400,000 Iraqi children under the age of five died of malnutrition and disease, preventively, but died because of the nature of the regime under which they are living." (Prime Minister Tony Blair, March 27, 2003)

-- Under the oil-for-food program, the international community sought to make available to the Iraqi people adequate supplies of food and medicine, but the regime blocked sufficient access for international workers to ensure proper distribution of these supplies.

-- Since the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom, coalition forces have discovered military warehouses filled with food supplies meant for the Iraqi people that had been diverted by Iraqi military forces.

-- The Iraqi regime has repeatedly refused visits by human rights monitors. From 1992 until 2002, Saddam prevented the UN Special Rapporteur from visiting Iraq.

-- The UN Special Rapporteur's September 2001, report criticized the regime for "the sheer number of executions," the number of "extrajudicial executions on political grounds," and "the absence of a due process of the law."

Executions: Saddam Hussein's regime has carried out frequent summary executions, including:

-- 4,000 prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison in 1984;
-- 3,000 prisoners at the Mahjar prison from 1993-1998;
-- 2,500 prisoners were executed between 1997-1999 in a "prison cleansing campaign";
-- 22 political prisoners were executed at Abu Ghraib prison in February/March 2000;
-- 23 political prisoners were executed at Abu Ghraib prison in October 2001;
-- At least 130 Iraqi women were beheaded between June 2000 and April 2001



Sounds like a great country to live in.

sure i got the info from http://www.state.gov/s/wci/fs/19352.htm but using google you can verify everything on there.
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notjoe
So i watch CNN all day. I find it hard to believe that the population as a whole would decline freedom. The vote was an important part of what will be their history, you think people werent happy to go out there and vote?

What makes you think they weren't happy??
They live in a different country, with different believes and traditions, what makes you happy doesnt mean it makes them happy.
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickFinga
What makes you think they weren't happy??
They live in a different country, with different believes and traditions, what makes you happy doesnt mean it makes them happy.
Maybe it was the fact they ran from iraq and were trying to bring all their family over?
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:54 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notjoe
Maybe it was the fact they ran from iraq and were trying to bring all their family over?

People move from USA to other countries because they can't stand the government too, whats your point???

Seriously, this is a debate that leads nowhere.

Here is the fact, during cold war, USSR was the evil number one in USA. In USSR, USA was the evil.
Both countries reported news that were in their interest. The fact is, I know tonns of Russian's that liked evil USSR much more than they free democratic Russia.
Same thing in Iraq right now, some people like new Iraq, some hate it.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:53 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notjoe
Maybe it was the fact they ran from iraq and were trying to bring all their family over?
are you suggesting that EVERY iraqi citizen ran from the country under Saddam's rule?
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notjoe
Past Repression and Atrocities by Saddam Hussein's Regime



For over 20 years, the greatest threat to Iraqis has been Saddam Hussein's regime -- he has killed, tortured, raped and terrorized the Iraqi people and his neighbors for over two decades.

When Iraq is free, past crimes against humanity and war crimes committed against Iraqis, will be accounted for, in a post-conflict Iraqi-led process. The United States, members of the coalition and international community will work with the Iraqi people to build a strong and credible judicial process to address these abuses.

-- Under Saddam's regime many hundreds of thousands of people have died as a result of his actions - the vast majority of them Muslims.

-- According to a 2001 Amnesty International report, "victims of torture in Iraq are subjected to a wide range of forms of torture, including the gouging out of eyes, severe beatings and electric shocks... some victims have died as a result and many have been left with permanent physical and psychological damage."

-- Saddam has had approximately 40 of his own relatives murdered.

-- Allegations of prostitution used to intimidate opponents of the regime, have been used by the regime to justify the barbaric beheading of women.

-- Documented chemical attacks by the regime, from 1983 to 1988, resulted in some 30,000 Iraqi and Iranian deaths.

-- Human Rights Watch estimates that Saddam's 1987-1988 campaign of terror against the Kurds killed at least 50,000 and possibly as many as 100,000 Kurds.

-- The Iraqi regime used chemical agents to include mustard gas and nerve agents in attacks against at least 40 Kurdish villages between 1987-1988. The largest was the attack on Halabja which resulted in approximately 5,000 deaths.

-- 2,000 Kurdish villages were destroyed during the campaign of terror.

-- Iraq's 13 million Shi'a Muslims, the majority of Iraq's population of approximately 22 million, face severe restrictions on their religious practice, including a ban on communal Friday prayer, and restriction on funeral processions.

-- According to Human Rights Watch, "senior Arab diplomats told the London-based Arabic daily newspaper al-Hayat in October [1991] that Iraqi leaders were privately acknowledging that 250,000 people were killed during the uprisings, with most of the casualties in the south."

-- Refugees International reports that the "Oppressive government policies have led to the internal displacement of 900,000 Iraqis, primarily Kurds who have fled to the north to escape Saddam Hussein's Arabization campaigns (which involve forcing Kurds to renounce their Kurdish identity or lose their property) and Marsh Arabs, who fled the government's campaign to dry up the southern marshes for agricultural use. More than 200,000 Iraqis continue to live as refugees in Iran."

-- The U.S. Committee for Refugees, in 2002, estimated that nearly 100,000 Kurds, Assyrians and Turkomans had previously been expelled, by the regime, from the "central-government-controlled Kirkuk and surrounding districts in the oil-rich region bordering the Kurdish controlled north."

-- "Over the past five years, 400,000 Iraqi children under the age of five died of malnutrition and disease, preventively, but died because of the nature of the regime under which they are living." (Prime Minister Tony Blair, March 27, 2003)

-- Under the oil-for-food program, the international community sought to make available to the Iraqi people adequate supplies of food and medicine, but the regime blocked sufficient access for international workers to ensure proper distribution of these supplies.

-- Since the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom, coalition forces have discovered military warehouses filled with food supplies meant for the Iraqi people that had been diverted by Iraqi military forces.

-- The Iraqi regime has repeatedly refused visits by human rights monitors. From 1992 until 2002, Saddam prevented the UN Special Rapporteur from visiting Iraq.

-- The UN Special Rapporteur's September 2001, report criticized the regime for "the sheer number of executions," the number of "extrajudicial executions on political grounds," and "the absence of a due process of the law."

Executions: Saddam Hussein's regime has carried out frequent summary executions, including:

-- 4,000 prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison in 1984;
-- 3,000 prisoners at the Mahjar prison from 1993-1998;
-- 2,500 prisoners were executed between 1997-1999 in a "prison cleansing campaign";
-- 22 political prisoners were executed at Abu Ghraib prison in February/March 2000;
-- 23 political prisoners were executed at Abu Ghraib prison in October 2001;
-- At least 130 Iraqi women were beheaded between June 2000 and April 2001



Sounds like a great country to live in.

sure i got the info from http://www.state.gov/s/wci/fs/19352.htm but using google you can verify everything on there.
and sure, many of these statements can be verified with Google. But why dont you compare with a list of the atrocities committed by the US, not even on a global scale but just in Iraq?? How about, just the fact of INVADING the country on the grounds of "WMD" and "terrorism" when it is blatantly clear all they wanted were to lay those oil pipelines.
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Old 02-04-2006, 12:17 AM   #23
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guys this is stupid.. think about it, the shit we see on global shit news, city tv, cnn stupid, are all retarded propaganda machines..

they had CTV talking to IRAQIS living in canada to get their opinions on sadda, and how eveil he was..

GET THIS, they were TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO FLED THE COUNTRY and stating their opinions as fact. On top of that, They aren't even talking to IRAQIS they are talking to KURDS..

Saddam doesn't even recognize the kurds as a people.. hell even the Turks dont recognize the kurds as people... so listen to these minotiry groups bash saddam is real opnion????

the only reason this whole shit ever happened is because of saddam and how he treated the kurds.. but do you oppose his views?? I mean the Kurds are nomads and suddenly want piece of his land and start claimin it theres...

anyway, whatever, this is politics, there will be conflicting views.... Is the world a better place with saddam gone... I doubt it..

All we have done is set up a home for the Kurds and given the Iraqis a freedom to vote.. but big ****ing deal you dont see the north koreans being bombed, or the chinese, or cuba - and cuba is ****ing 90 miles south of the US.. talk about a bunch of hipocrit americans.
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Old 02-04-2006, 01:46 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notjoe
You consider living under rule of someone who executes people who defie him as being free?

More often than not i hear stories of how they (the people of iraq) are glad he is gone (saddam) and how he has executed some if not all of their family members which arent coming off CNN.
I didn't say anything about what I consider to be free. More often than not you hear stories that have gone through a selective filter.

Every year China executes more people than the rest of the word combind. This is in addition to the thousands who are just "dissapeared". Yet you don't constantly see news stories about it, and many chinese people I've spoken with (we have a lot of international visa students here) support the government and would want it changed.
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Old 02-04-2006, 02:08 AM   #25
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****ing chinese
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Old 02-04-2006, 07:05 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e36chick
and sure, many of these statements can be verified with Google. But why dont you compare with a list of the atrocities committed by the US, not even on a global scale but just in Iraq?? How about, just the fact of INVADING the country on the grounds of "WMD" and "terrorism" when it is blatantly clear all they wanted were to lay those oil pipelines.

So, maybe we should have left hitler alone as well while he was killing all the jews?
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Old 02-04-2006, 07:12 AM   #27
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Maybe we should have left Milosevic in power as well?

Saddam is no different than Milosevic.
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Old 02-04-2006, 07:31 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex
guys this is stupid.. think about it, the shit we see on global shit news, city tv, cnn stupid, are all retarded propaganda machines..

they had CTV talking to IRAQIS living in canada to get their opinions on sadda, and how eveil he was..

GET THIS, they were TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO FLED THE COUNTRY and stating their opinions as fact. On top of that, They aren't even talking to IRAQIS they are talking to KURDS..

Saddam doesn't even recognize the kurds as a people.. hell even the Turks dont recognize the kurds as people... so listen to these minotiry groups bash saddam is real opnion????

the only reason this whole shit ever happened is because of saddam and how he treated the kurds.. but do you oppose his views?? I mean the Kurds are nomads and suddenly want piece of his land and start claimin it theres...

anyway, whatever, this is politics, there will be conflicting views.... Is the world a better place with saddam gone... I doubt it..

All we have done is set up a home for the Kurds and given the Iraqis a freedom to vote.. but big ****ing deal you dont see the north koreans being bombed, or the chinese, or cuba - and cuba is ****ing 90 miles south of the US.. talk about a bunch of hipocrit americans.

So what you're saying is that its ok to kill he kurds? Because, well, they're kurds?

BTW, Fidal hasnt done 10th of the shit which saddam has done. Compare apples and apples not apples and oranges.
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Old 02-04-2006, 07:37 AM   #29
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It's nice to know that you guys support the beheading of people who are kidnapped in iraq, after all it those people who are chopping off the heads of everyonne and are claiming to be the resistance, which you all seem to be supporting.

Anyways, i'm done with all you narrow minded "follow the trend" yuppies.
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Old 02-04-2006, 11:51 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notjoe
So what you're saying is that its ok to kill he kurds? Because, well, they're kurds?

BTW, Fidal hasnt done 10th of the shit which saddam has done. Compare apples and apples not apples and oranges.
wow what are you 18-20? no seriously

Fidel had NUCLEAR WEAPONS (from russia) that were almost deployed
"cuban missle crissis" ever hear of it? it was alomost like WWIII in the 60's
But yet Fidel still exists.

so what makes Saddam such a threat to U.S. soil being that since
91 he's had no airforce, starving people (U.N sanctions) and was surrounded
by america in Kuwiat, Turkey & saudi arabia.

U.S being in saudi was an affront to some musslims which is What spawned
B.ladin, also used by the CIA at 1 time like saddam was

IT has never been proven that Saddam had anything to do with 9-11
& he certianly had no way to get those WMD's he didn't have over to
north america.

North Korea apparently has missles capable of reaching West coast U.s!?
kim's still kicking it though. why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by notjoe
So, maybe we should have left hitler alone as well while he was killing all the jews?
Uhmm hello "history" mutha Fkr ever read it?

U.S stayed out of the war that started in 38 until 42 when bombed by japan.
many hsitorians now say the u.s KNEW that was comming but allowed it
as it would let the (isolationist) american peoples have a reason to enter the war.
without it there would be strong resistance.
Canda as a colony of britian was in it way before america!

Also "exodus" google it, The u.s stopped boats of Refugee Jews fleeing hitler
so did many other countries.


Quote:
Originally Posted by notjoe
It's nice to know that you guys support the beheading of people who are kidnapped in iraq, after all it those people who are chopping off the heads of everyonne and are claiming to be the resistance, which you all seem to be supporting.

Anyways, i'm done with all you narrow minded "follow the trend" yuppies.
This is about all agree with taht you've typed
I would not support people like that.
althuogh it's gauranteed the U.s has also commited atrocities.
if some foreign country invaded canada you might do some whack shit yourself.

sadly Voilence historicaly does accomplish things!
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