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Old 10-08-2002, 02:59 PM   #16
GR8 Ride
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Of which, DirectX (ie, Direct3D) and OpenGL are both 3D acceleration languages (APIs).

So what if some of them are OpenGL based, and not DirectX based? Quake III is OpenGL based; UT will work either either....

Both the ATI Radeon series of cards and the NVidia series of cards support OpenGL and DirectX.

In fact, the ATI Radeon is the only one to support the soon to be released DirectX 9.0 standard.... (9700 Pro only).

Once again, chipsets are mostly irrelevant when it comes to the ability to decipher the games.

The chipset *is* relevant only in the speed of the game, and the current Radeon and GeForce4 models are both capable of providing solid frame rates for any modern game, assuming the remainder of the system hardware is half-decent.


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Old 10-08-2002, 03:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by GR8 Ride


Actually, that's a load of bunk.

Most games are based on either the OpenGL API, or Direct X API. There is no *chipset* specific coding in ANY game....

The days of chipset specific coding ended several years ago, as the game writers had to write specific subroutines for each video card out there.... This was also in the time when DOS games ruled, and nobody played any games in Windows.

OpenGL was commonly available as a pure graphics language, and Microsoft was coming out with DirectX to solve that issue.

Today, anything with EITHER an ATI chipset (R200 or better) or an NVidia chipset will do fine.

I'd suggest a Geforce 4 Ti (4400 or 4600) which will run about $500 or so.

On the ATI side, I'd suggest a Radeon 8500 which will run in the high $300s.

A lot of what you pick on the video card side will depend on what the rest of your system looks like. There is little point in dropping a $500 video card into a Pentium II 366....

If you're running a Pentium III, 1Ghz or higher, than a good video card will help your system.

ATI has resolved their driver issues, and the new Radeon 9700 Pro is the current king of video cards...by a LONG shot.

NVidia doesn't even have a working chip for their NV30 (for the Geforce 5) yet; no way for them to build boards until such time as they get one. I'd be surprised if Nvidia is able to make the Christmas timeframe; more likely is late Q1 of 2003.


Pat
Hmmm......this post sounds a bit out of my league.

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Old 10-08-2002, 05:02 PM   #18
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Yeah, it can get pretty overwhelming....usually the top of the heap is pretty clear, and everything below that gets pretty muddy.

I'd stay away from the Geforce3 MX cards, since most of the lower end GF4 4200 / 4400 cards are relatively cheap now.

Basically, one GF4 is nearly identical to another.

A good idea would be to pick up the October issue of Maximum PC; it has a list of recommended hardware in the High-end, mid-range and low-end classes of product.

Prices are in U.S. dollars, but the exchange rate on PC products tends to be more favourable than bank rates... (ie, better than 1.60 to 1.00).

You can probably get a pretty good NVidia based card for $200 or less; a good ATI card (7500 or 8500) for the same price.

There are as many problems with one as the other, so it's not a big deal one way or the other; I've had both, and I'm running ATI right now.


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Old 10-08-2002, 05:18 PM   #19
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Talking ELO!!!

128 MB DDR NVIDIA GEFORCE IV TITANIUM AGP VIDEO CARD!!!!!!!! THATS THE ONLY WAY TO GO>>>> I just got my new computer three weeks ago.. and the games loooook amazing!!!
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Old 10-08-2002, 05:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by GR8 Ride

ATI has resolved their driver issues, and the new Radeon 9700 Pro is the current king of video cards...by a LONG shot.

Pat
We shall see, thats one of the main reasons why I strayed from their cards, numerous driver problems with OS's and new games. there are numerious detonator drivers being released even before the games or operating systems come out.

ATI still hasnt earned my trust, but for me, I will wait for the NV30 to come out and then compare which card I'd like better.


Anyways, I dont think all of this really matters anyways, the budget we're working with is $200, in which, IMO his best bet would be a 4200. the Radeon 9700 is way out of his price range, and there are too many problems with the earlier cards.
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Old 10-08-2002, 05:25 PM   #21
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Re: ELO!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by G~G
128 MB DDR NVIDIA GEFORCE IV TITANIUM AGP VIDEO CARD!!!!!!!! THATS THE ONLY WAY TO GO>>>> I just got my new computer three weeks ago.. and the games loooook amazing!!!
actually I believe the Radeon cards look even better, Trueform!
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Old 10-08-2002, 05:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by GR8 Ride

You can probably get a pretty good NVidia based card for $200 or less; a good ATI card (7500 or 8500) for the same price.

There are as many problems with one as the other, so it's not a big deal one way or the other; I've had both, and I'm running ATI right now.


Pat
ugh, talk about multiple posting.. anyways,

I have to dissagree with that statement, my experiences with pre 9700 ATI's have had much more problems than nvidia cards, nvidia cards these days are virtually plug and play. With ati cards there are still driver and patch updates that you have to wait like a week after the games release. One of the most rescent includes EA's Battlefield.
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Old 10-08-2002, 05:36 PM   #23
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definately go with the radeon
you'll get the best bang for your buck because they tend to last for a long time, have great driver support, and dont cost as much since they're made right here in mississauga.
I've currently got a Radeon 64meg DDR ViVo and it's awsome
sure i get a few slowdowns on the really new games like UT2003, and battlefield 1942, but not by much.

The great thing with the radeons as well is that they actually run smoother at anything above 1024x768 res! I found my framerates on most games actually improved by setting my resolution to 1600x1200, especially in opengl games.

When buying your next card:

-go for something with a known brand name, so you know you'll get decent driver support.

-Get at least a 64meg video card so it will last you more than a few months.

-get agp 4x if your motherboard supports it

-make sure it's opengl, and directx 8.0 compliant
dont get anything glide (voodoo, 3dfx) as it's outdated

-get it OEM (out of the box), you save bigtime, and who cares about the games and utils it comes with?? i dont

-make sure it's compatible with your motherboard chipsets, and check online for user reviews about the card you're looking to get.

-expect to pay at least $130 for a decent one that will last you more than a year hopefully

-expect yourself to be addicted to video cards and graphics after you go 3daccellerated, and always drooling over the next $700 geforce or ati card comming out =)
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Old 10-08-2002, 09:49 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by djcontra

When buying your next card:

-go for something with a known brand name, so you know you'll get decent driver support.

-Get at least a 64meg video card so it will last you more than a few months.

-get agp 4x if your motherboard supports it

-make sure it's opengl, and directx 8.0 compliant
dont get anything glide (voodoo, 3dfx) as it's outdated

-get it OEM (out of the box), you save bigtime, and who cares about the games and utils it comes with?? i dont

-make sure it's compatible with your motherboard chipsets, and check online for user reviews about the card you're looking to get.

-expect to pay at least $130 for a decent one that will last you more than a year hopefully

-expect yourself to be addicted to video cards and graphics after you go 3daccellerated, and always drooling over the next $700 geforce or ati card comming out =)
Thanks for the help, seems like a good guide to go by, did not realize things have to be compatible with my motherboard, sure shows how much i know.

Thanks again for all the help everyone!!!

Whiskey

P.S. OEM it is!
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Old 10-08-2002, 10:45 PM   #25
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...

ahhhh... the good ole' video card debate.

anyhow, these are all good comments, but everyone has different needs, and finding the card that best suits her/his needs (including their $budget) is never easy.

here's a site thats packed with reviews about each chipset and mfg.

http://www.8dimensional.com/3DChips.html

here's the top picks from high-end to low budget cards.

- Radeon 9700 Pro
- GeForce4 Ti
- Radeon 8500
- GeForce3 Ti200
- Radeon 7500
- Kyro II
- GeForce2 MX400

the new ATI's are definitely packed with all the goodies, software, utils, etc.... but your paying big buck$ for it. there's been some write up on previous ATI cards with heat problems, and its been rectified with their new models.

I'm sure Nvidia will come up with something big come xmas time..... we'll have to wait and see.

you have to remember, whiskeym3 has a budget to work with! good luck on your purchase!

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Old 10-09-2002, 12:03 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gamite


ugh, talk about multiple posting.. anyways,

I have to dissagree with that statement, my experiences with pre 9700 ATI's have had much more problems than nvidia cards, nvidia cards these days are virtually plug and play. With ati cards there are still driver and patch updates that you have to wait like a week after the games release. One of the most rescent includes EA's Battlefield.
See, I had exactly the OPPOSITE problem. When I upgraded my desktop machine to XP Pro, my NVidia card (regardless of what driver was used), it would complain on start-up each time.

All the searching I did showed that this was a known issue for NVidia (the system would pop up with the "Your computer has recovered from a serious error. Would you like to send this information to Microsoft". Every time the PC rebooted, it would encounter this.

No driver (WHQL certified or not) would resolve this, and NVidia was pointing fingers at MS, and MS was pointing fingers at NVidia....

So I bought a Radeon 8500DV instead; no problems, nice and fast (I'm only running an AMD 1.2GHz machine at the moment), and absolutely no driver issues.

Though, I could *really* skip all the DV issues; I was mostly after the TV tuner aspect....which I now never use anyway.

My next card will likely be the Radeon 9700 Pro, or the NV30, all depending upon what timeframe I'm likely to upgrade my desktop at....Winter is when I spend some time playing games (and I have an XBox for what reason????).

Summer, I'm basically outdoors all the time, so I can't be bothered to do much beyond checking my e-mails, and getting into flame-wars


Pat
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Old 10-09-2002, 12:56 AM   #27
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Re: ...

Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gates
ahhhh... the good ole' video card debate.

anyhow, these are all good comments, but everyone has different needs, and finding the card that best suits her/his needs (including their $budget) is never easy.

here's a site thats packed with reviews about each chipset and mfg.

http://www.8dimensional.com/3DChips.html

here's the top picks from high-end to low budget cards.

- Radeon 9700 Pro
- GeForce4 Ti
- Radeon 8500
- GeForce3 Ti200
- Radeon 7500
- Kyro II
- GeForce2 MX400

the new ATI's are definitely packed with all the goodies, software, utils, etc.... but your paying big buck$ for it. there's been some write up on previous ATI cards with heat problems, and its been rectified with their new models.

I'm sure Nvidia will come up with something big come xmas time..... we'll have to wait and see.

you have to remember, whiskeym3 has a budget to work with! good luck on your purchase!
Thanks for the site billy.... now lower your prices for your products...

Whiskey
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Old 10-09-2002, 01:19 AM   #28
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I don't play games so I don't care
But I used ATI on all my computers, except S3 TRIO+ 1mb
w0w0w0w0w

P.S. Currently running Radeon 7500
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Old 10-09-2002, 01:26 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by GR8 Ride


See, I had exactly the OPPOSITE problem. When I upgraded my desktop machine to XP Pro, my NVidia card (regardless of what driver was used), it would complain on start-up each time.

All the searching I did showed that this was a known issue for NVidia (the system would pop up with the "Your computer has recovered from a serious error. Would you like to send this information to Microsoft". Every time the PC rebooted, it would encounter this.

No driver (WHQL certified or not) would resolve this, and NVidia was pointing fingers at MS, and MS was pointing fingers at NVidia....

So I bought a Radeon 8500DV instead; no problems, nice and fast (I'm only running an AMD 1.2GHz machine at the moment), and absolutely no driver issues.

Though, I could *really* skip all the DV issues; I was mostly after the TV tuner aspect....which I now never use anyway.

My next card will likely be the Radeon 9700 Pro, or the NV30, all depending upon what timeframe I'm likely to upgrade my desktop at....Winter is when I spend some time playing games (and I have an XBox for what reason????).

Summer, I'm basically outdoors all the time, so I can't be bothered to do much beyond checking my e-mails, and getting into flame-wars


Pat
Really? I guess thats why you seemed to be more aimed towards ATI, I've had most of my problems with ATI, so naturally, I'm all for nvidia cards, but I have to agree, the 9700 is an amazing card, I really do hope there are no issues with the card. Its only $488 at Canada Computers right now, which is really reasonable for the performance.

I'm STILL using a geforce2 MX, I really havent gotten around to getting a new card, but I'd think I need one more than most people, I havent upgrade simply because everything is holding up pretty well on my AMD 1.4, but that new Battlefield game is killing me. Time to upgrade. I'm gonna hold out and see how the GF5 performs.


So Pat, now that your indoors all the time, we can look forward to you busting Rob's balls more often? LOL.
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Old 10-09-2002, 07:38 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gamite



I'm STILL using a geforce2 MX, I really havent gotten around to getting a new card, but I'd think I need one more than most people, I havent upgrade simply because everything is holding up pretty well on my AMD 1.4, but that new Battlefield game is killing me. Time to upgrade. I'm gonna hold out and see how the GF5 performs.

same here, i'll continue to hold out until doom3 is out so i can get a card that will be capable of playing that. Because the game is so graphic intensive, i'm pretty confident the cards that support that game will last quite a while.

With battlefield 1942, there is a major sound engine bug which causes the game to run slower than it should. If you disable sound, the game will run VERY smooth. For now EA's only fix is to set directx sound accelleration to basic and use that until the next patch.

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