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Old 10-16-2002, 09:24 PM   #46
Scottycs
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1997 M3 Cams, I thought that was the subject. And if you think Canada is better, Im all for you. How big is your army again, I think your whole country is owned. Your lil stats are amazing, I can't help it our streets are full of hobos. How come 90% of your population is within 100 miles of the US? You may have more billionaire families per capita, WOW, but we have 20 times the livable land you have.
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Old 10-16-2002, 09:33 PM   #47
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Army?? So what, China for example can generate more army reservists than the whole american population, if thats what you want to compare. They could probably walk in a straight line on american soil with pitchforks and win a war against you. That is irrelevant. 20 times the livable land? I think it matters more on how you make use of what you have, and not how much land you have. One example is Japan, look how small they are and what they have accomplished. Oh and Nortel?? Wow you got me there, your right. But at least its still a functional business, which brings Enron into mind!
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Old 10-16-2002, 09:44 PM   #48
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Mkgino is right...you may have livable land, but wats the point if we have th best resources? what are you gonna do? nuke us? i'd rather live in canada than the US, who cares if you have a bigger army? we have NATO and UN to help us out, i dont understand americans...why have the biggest military? so you can defend everyone? thats why those ****ing morons are crashing planes into your buildings and sending snipers and shit like that...and if america is so much better, how come theres way too much crime...they have america's most wanted, i never saw canada's most wanted before, what does that tell you?

btw, u have a nice e36!
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Old 10-16-2002, 09:45 PM   #49
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Oh I like his car too, I hope mine gets performance like that also, but your right, you cant rule the world by coersion.
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Old 10-16-2002, 09:53 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by mkgino
Oh I like his car too, I hope mine gets performance like that also, but your right, you cant rule the world by coersion.
im tellin u...get a blower! i would recomend m3 engine...but, in this case blower would be way better for your money.
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Old 10-16-2002, 09:56 PM   #51
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How am I gonna do that man?? Can you buy a blower from sitting on your lazy ass with $0.03 in the bank?? Man all Im ever gonna do to my car is boltons and more boltons, and make it as fast or maybe a touch faster than a stock M3. That is my goal! But my next performance mod is definately gonna be the poor mans S/C or aka--> Auto M3 differential!
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Old 10-17-2002, 12:21 AM   #52
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That's ****ed up shit. Damn sniper is whacko, prob a angry Canadian. GO KILL YOURSELF!!! That was uncalled for you. Don't argue which country is better, I can't remember what's your country's GDP??? Don't pretend. When I want a cheap vacation, I'll be sure to visit you. I never brought up the country issue till bozo mentioned it, Hell I didn't know this was a Canadian board. I think the jealousy of my country and car is quite the problem. I didn't come here to get into stupid arguments, but I cam to talk about BMWs!!!


Just some FYI:



Quote:
Originally posted by E46_lover
thats why those ****ing morons are crashing planes into your buildings and sending snipers and shit like that

btw, u have a nice e36!
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Last edited by Scottycs; 10-17-2002 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 10-17-2002, 12:29 AM   #53
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When was the last time you operated a Dyno? Oh thats right. I know what the calculations are, Ridiculous? No. BMW and EVERY OTHER manufacture must OVERATE their cars A LOT if the drivetrain loss is 10%. GET REAL.

Springs are not needed, I didn't say they were not stronger in the M3. I didn't ask you to pull this out your ass, but I am telling you from experience. This upgrade is recomended by many WELL KNOWN people (Brett Anderson, Will Turner).

Quote:
Originally posted by FOCKER


At the rediculous friction loss you mention Chris this would be impossible

If springs aren't needed as you say, then why would BMW waste their money by installing stiffer ones in the M3? Gee, something to think about?
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Old 10-17-2002, 08:56 AM   #54
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Well, let's see..... we dyno cars two or three times a year; last time was about 3 weeks ago when we took several cars out of the shop over to a chassis dyno (Mustang, which is far more accurate than a Dynojet).

Secondly, in looking at your dyno chart, none of the numbers seem to make any sense.

At what RPM is your car putting out 213 rwhp? Looks to me like it's 207 rwhp, and *corrected* for ambient air to 213.x. What correction factor did you put in, as that has a big impact on real world data.

Without reading the manual, it certainly *looks* like your Dynapack is trying to interpret (ie calculate) flywheel HP from rwhp... Why is Powfly and Torqfly in there? I could certainly believe 213.4 HP at the flywheel given what you've done to it....not to the rear wheels.

To get 240+ HP out of a 2.5L motor requires some serious headwork....talk to a guy like Pete McHenry or Chuck Stickley about something like that. Basically, the TWO BEST BMW engine builders in North America. The MOST Chuck was able to get out of a 2.5L motor (with serious headwork, valve work, custom ground cams etc) was between 240 and 250 HP (and maintain reliability, that is). And yes, he has his own dyno as well....

You sure those dyno pics you put up aren't with the 3.0L US spec motor in your car instead......sounds awfully fishy to me. If the best engine builders in the U.S. aren't able to get that much power out of the motor with custom work, I'm having a hard time believing that you can do it with M3 cams....

Sorry, but your credibility just isn't there....


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Old 10-17-2002, 10:49 AM   #55
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Lets see, I dyno cars daily....

Funny you say that, because Mustang dyno is far less accurate then dynapack.

How do the numbers not make sence? 213 is corrected for weather. I will explain to you how your dynojet/mustang dyno operate. They take acceleration over speed as a function of time, Mustang dyno is slightly better with a small motor to give resistence. Bottom line, neither is a true loading dyno. Dynapack measures actual torque, REAL TIME.

Those are WHP, I have put no calculation in for Flywheel Power, Hence the same as PowCorr.

Hmm. Funny you mention Pete Mchenry. Their family lives very close to me and I speak to his sons quite often. You can ask them about my car, they thought it was not possiable. Actually I am upgrading to a 3.0 currently, and Pete Mchenry is buying my head. Also we have dyno tested some of his cars, I think I would know what they put down. Just tested a 3.2 (from 3.0) of his with stock cams, 255 whp 222 tq. Please get back to me when your serious. I dont come here to bullshit.

Sorry, but YOUR credibility just isn't there.... ITS POSSIBLE, I DID IT!

Quote:
Originally posted by GR8 Ride
Well, let's see..... we dyno cars two or three times a year; last time was about 3 weeks ago when we took several cars out of the shop over to a chassis dyno (Mustang, which is far more accurate than a Dynojet).

Secondly, in looking at your dyno chart, none of the numbers seem to make any sense.

At what RPM is your car putting out 213 rwhp? Looks to me like it's 207 rwhp, and *corrected* for ambient air to 213.x. What correction factor did you put in, as that has a big impact on real world data.

Without reading the manual, it certainly *looks* like your Dynapack is trying to interpret (ie calculate) flywheel HP from rwhp... Why is Powfly and Torqfly in there? I could certainly believe 213.4 HP at the flywheel given what you've done to it....not to the rear wheels.

To get 240+ HP out of a 2.5L motor requires some serious headwork....talk to a guy like Pete McHenry or Chuck Stickley about something like that. Basically, the TWO BEST BMW engine builders in North America. The MOST Chuck was able to get out of a 2.5L motor (with serious headwork, valve work, custom ground cams etc) was between 240 and 250 HP (and maintain reliability, that is). And yes, he has his own dyno as well....

You sure those dyno pics you put up aren't with the 3.0L US spec motor in your car instead......sounds awfully fishy to me. If the best engine builders in the U.S. aren't able to get that much power out of the motor with custom work, I'm having a hard time believing that you can do it with M3 cams....

Sorry, but your credibility just isn't there....


Pat
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Last edited by Scottycs; 10-17-2002 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 10-17-2002, 12:46 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scottycs
That's ****ed up shit. Damn sniper is whacko, prob a angry Canadian. GO KILL YOURSELF!!! That was uncalled for you. Don't argue which country is better, I can't remember what's your country's GDP??? Don't pretend. When I want a cheap vacation, I'll be sure to visit you. I never brought up the country issue till bozo mentioned it, Hell I didn't know this was a Canadian board. I think the jealousy of my country and car is quite the problem. I didn't come here to get into stupid arguments, but I cam to talk about BMWs!!!


Just some FYI:



The only difference that makes is if your spending your cash in another country. So what if your GDP is really high, it has to be, the American cost of living is unbelievable!!!
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Old 10-17-2002, 01:22 PM   #57
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I can't help it that we live in style. This argument is stupid, so end it.
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Old 10-17-2002, 03:04 PM   #58
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Well, all I see so far that I agree with is 207.5 wheel HP. I'm not sure about the accuracy of the Dynapack, but that's simply because I've never had the chance to test one vs a Mustang Dyno or Dynojet (which are both commonly available here).

It would be interesting to see a dyno plot on a Mustang dyno merely for comparative data; to see inaccuracies in a chassis dyno. Once again, I'm not really a fan of ANY chassis dyno, as the numbers tend to be suspect.

If Pete's buying your head, then I'd suggest that the 2.5L isn't just cams, and that you've done more to it than that, which could justify the numbers your dyno is showing. Your initial post made it seem like your car was putting out 200+ rwhp with nothing more than the M3 cams in an otherwise stock 2.5L motor. If headwork et al has been done to it, then 240-250 HP is possible out of that motor (Chuck and I had a long conversation about the number of *cheater* motors which are used in Club Racing).

I still take issue with the 18% powertrain losses, as friction losses in the transmission, driveshaft and rear diff simply aren't that high. 12% maybe....what gear are you dynoing your car in?

A good test is to also dyno the car in 3/4/5 gears, and see if the results are any different. If the numbers show up essentially the same, it would give you a good indication of how much transmission loss actually is (minimal, especially in a 1:1 gear ratio).

The rear diff accounts for the majority of powertrain losses, since it's not a linear gearset (you're actually changing drive angle). Of the 10-12%, it accounts for the majority of the powertrain loss.

My own car dyno's at 172 rwhp (94 325is), and the powertrain is stock....given a 189 HP rating at the crank. Granted, some motors are stronger than others, but I doubt BMW is putting anything out with significant output differences.


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Old 10-17-2002, 03:23 PM   #59
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dude if you still have the cams i am interested in them let me know thanx.
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Old 10-17-2002, 03:28 PM   #60
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I am not wasting my time on this anymore. Don't have time for it.

Sorry qwk325 I sold the cams.

I recomend them to anyone, its more than 10-15 hp. I know from experience.

Have a nice day to all of you.
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