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Old 09-22-2005, 10:45 AM   #16
DavidM5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkD
it, and the students don't even see what was written. It's almost like going to school and not getting a report card to know how you did. I talked to one of the organisers about it this week, and he agreed with by feedback but said it's because one "old timer" wants everyting his way and doesn't like computers. I'm mentioning this here as I fail to see the value in a teaching systrem that does not track your progress. And reducing lap times is a partial measure of progress.

Mark
Yes that sucks that you cannot judge your progress.
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Old 09-23-2005, 05:56 PM   #17
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Yet another collection tales about Trillium's downward slide....

Before the Trillium board was taken over by the current collection of jokers (Randy being the exception), it was mandatory that instructors review the feedback form with each student before the weekend was over.

Also, the results of the feedback forms were entered into a database, and hard copies were kept on file so that students could be matched up with a coach that suited their ability level/car type/experience level at the next event.

Many things have changed at Trillium over the last 2 years- racers and race cars were forced out of the club based on a fictitious "insurance" story, so many of the most experienced instructors had to leave. As a result, many people were promoted to instructor rank overnight, whether they were qualified or not.

Imagine going to a so-called Driving School where you have more Mosport laps under your belt than your instructor? That can now happen to you at Trillium. There are people wearing instructor jackets who have had multiple crashes at Mosport in multiple cars....would you want somebody like that teaching YOU?

Funny how since they booted out the racers and their cars, they can't seem to sell out a school any more.....there used to be BIG waiting lists before the current collection of two-faced spineless jerks took over the club.

It is sad to watch a handful of egotistical jackoffs ruin what was once the envy of BMW Club chapters everywhere....

Just my opinion.....if you don't like it, don't read it.
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Old 09-23-2005, 06:48 PM   #18
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I must have got lucky...

Hi,

I went to Mosport for the first time this year and have volunteered for about four years now. I had a great instructor! We sat down at the end of the weekend and went through the evaluations of each other. It was rather beneficial. As for the storage of such information, I was not sure where it went, but I was planning to get a copy before the next school I do.

In the short time I've been with the club there have been many changes in personnel and procedures. Some for the better, some for the worse. The best way to have a say is to be part of the club and vote for people who can make a difference. Those who are making the decisions for the club have been put there by the club. Every year we have a chance to hear what the nominees have to offer the club. We can also take that time to reflect on what they have done. Regardless of whether they are part of the board of directors or not, you can usually see the nomiees at most events. You can see who is passionate about the club and for what reasons.

In short, if you're passionate about the club and changing its direction, toss your hat in the ring. If time does not permit, be sure to vote.

My 0.02,
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Old 09-24-2005, 03:50 AM   #19
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interesting info.
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Old 09-24-2005, 05:33 PM   #20
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Yes, yes. Sure is.
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Old 09-26-2005, 01:42 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkD
I don't know as we are not supposed to time them. So unless someone else did, I have no idea. Some of the things going on at the BMWCC don't make much sense. For example, they don't keep the instructor feedback on each student in a file where the next instructor can read it, and the students don't even see what was written. It's almost like going to school and not getting a report card to know how you did. I talked to one of the organisers about it this week, and he agreed with by feedback but said it's because one "old timer" wants everyting his way and doesn't like computers. I'm mentioning this here as I fail to see the value in a teaching systrem that does not track your progress. And reducing lap times is a partial measure of progress.
Mark
Hi Mark,
On the point that students don't even see what was written, just want to make a suggestion that you can easily get an extra blank copy of student's evaluation for yourself at the event and then sit down with your instructor, and ask him to be as brutally honest as he can be because you truly want to improve. As long as you had a good rapport with him, there is no reason why he would not share his evaluation of you; you then just mark the form yourself and keep it for the next event. I did this the last time I attended Trillium.

As far as lap times, I agree with you but that applies to all BMWCC/CCA driving schools (in Canada or US). You can time yourself during private lapping days.
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Old 09-26-2005, 01:56 AM   #22
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Why would they not not tell you what they wrote regardless. It is labelled as a driving school right? Thats like saying that you write a college exam, then not have the proffessor grade it or tell you how you did???? Im I the only when here that thinks this is really dumb???????? I have heard a lot about these schools and how good they are, but also about these issues. And that is one reason why I have not been to inclined to attend. I get some good track time in through organzing my own events and attending friend's events and can get instruction there by plenty of qualilifed ppl.
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Old 09-26-2005, 03:49 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER
Why would they not not tell you what they wrote regardless. It is labelled as a driving school right? Thats like saying that you write a college exam, then not have the proffessor grade it or tell you how you did???? Im I the only when here that thinks this is really dumb???????? I have heard a lot about these schools and how good they are, but also about these issues. And that is one reason why I have not been to inclined to attend. I get some good track time in through organzing my own events and attending friend's events and can get instruction there by plenty of qualilifed ppl.
Stalker,
You take away from any event as much as you want. The instructors at all official BMW chapters talk to you all the time throughout the weekend, and he is with you each session of each day, continuously pointing out areas to improve; Plus, you usually get two instructors for a weekend, so you get to hear different perspectives.

I was simply saying that just because of some procedure, it does not mean Mark cannot take away everything he wants out of the weekend.

Besides you usually know by the end of the school what areas you need to work-on and which ones you are doing well; the rating at the end is more of clarification rather than a surprise or as you put it some grade you get at the end of exam.

If anyone wants to drive at any big (elevation) tracks, BMWCC/BMWCCA is still the best route to learn them before you are comfortable to drive there without an instructor.
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Old 09-26-2005, 09:28 AM   #24
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Mark's case doesn't necessarily reflect all the instructor's actions. I've been instructing for 5 years now and make sure that I review my evaluation sheet with each student when completed. I also offer a copy to him/her to future schools if they want. Instructors are asked to do this, whether some choose to is another story.
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Old 09-26-2005, 09:43 AM   #25
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Mark's case doesn't necessarily reflect all the instructor's actions. I've been instructing for 5 years now and make sure that I review my evaluation sheet with each student when completed. I also offer a copy to him/her to future schools if they want. Instructors are asked to do this, whether some choose to is another story.
Randy,

I've attended one BMW school last year and 3 this year, and no instructor has offered me a copy of the evaluation, and I didn't know I could ask for it. Obviously, anyone who attends a school would want that information and it should be in written form. It costs most students at least $700 to attend a 2 day school (considering the registration, fuel, tires and other incidentals like brake pads) and so they should get feedback in printed form.

I've enjoyed most of the schools and will attend others, hopefully all students will get the feedback form without asking the future.

Mark
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