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Old 06-15-2005, 10:08 PM   #46
BigD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raging Lamb
when science goes against peoples beliefs, they dismiss even the most widely known and accepted scientific findings and claim that scienctists don't really know anything.
But to make their beliefs believable, people take the vaguest, most abstract scientific theories and draw absurd connections and claim to "prove" their superstitions scientifically.

What a fuc*ing joke.
Yeah those are very common fallacies (Personal Attack or Straw Man arguments) commited by these types of people. The most common one is the Burden of Proof fallacy, where the burden of proof is misplaced, eg: you can't prove God doesn't exist, so He does. WRONG!
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Old 06-15-2005, 10:14 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raging Lamb
I don't believe in ghosts. But I don't completely dismiss the possibility of their existence, although I give it miniscual value.

I'm with you on this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raging Lamb
If ghosts do exist, they would have to be made of matter for me to be able to see them. Because unless light can reflect off them, human eyes can't detect them. And if light can reflect off them, then they have to be made of physical matter. Are they? Can they be?
Disagree here, there are many things human eye can not see, but we will all agree they exist, e.g. air, electricity, etc.
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Old 06-15-2005, 10:19 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigD
In that paragraph I was talking about both and neither. I was talking about the general notion of the supernatural phenomona. You can't be selective. If you believe in ghosts then you also have to believe in all the rest of it.
No, no you don't.
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Old 06-15-2005, 10:28 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigD
Yeah those are very common fallacies (Personal Attack or Straw Man arguments) commited by these types of people. The most common one is the Burden of Proof fallacy, where the burden of proof is misplaced, eg: you can't prove God doesn't exist, so He does. WRONG!
hahaha, good example, that's a classic one
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Old 06-15-2005, 10:31 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by RO-bemve
yea go to the mental hospital and ask those guys wut they see...does it make it real? **** NO! and since i dont know how mentally balanced u or anyone else is, stfu

actually, now there is talk that skitzos really do see things, and that spirtis haunt them. Who knows? It could be it.
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Old 06-15-2005, 10:32 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickFinga
Disagree here, there are many things human eye can not see, but we will all agree they exist, e.g. air, electricity, etc.
Where I was going with that was: many people claim to see ghosts, that means they have to be composed of matter for light to reflect off them and be detected by human eyes.
Can ghosts be composed of matter? That's where I was going with this.
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Last edited by Raging Lamb; 06-15-2005 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 06-16-2005, 12:27 AM   #52
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You guys are missing the point. No one is saying that they exist we are simply saying that the CAN exist.
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Old 06-16-2005, 12:30 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raging Lamb
Where I was going with that was: many people claim to see ghosts, that means they have to be composed of matter for light to reflect off them and be detected by human eyes.
Can ghosts be composed of matter? That's where I was going with this.
There are other things we cannot see but exist eg,. gravity.

They used to say the earth was flat because it could nto be proved otherwise, or so they thought.

What about a dog whistle? I'm sure that there are people on the planet that were developped a certain way that they are capable of hearing at those frequencies. Could it be that it's on a diffrent dimension/frquentcy? We are saying it's only possible. There is no evidence one way or another because man kind has not been able to develop the technoligy to sence/identify these things?

Last edited by coolhand; 06-16-2005 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 06-16-2005, 03:13 AM   #54
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u guys should start writing books. expecially Justin
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Old 06-16-2005, 05:37 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by tekniq
You guys are missing the point. No one is saying that they exist we are simply saying that the CAN exist.


No, no one is argueing if they CAN or CAN NOT exist. Because there is a possibility for everything to exist.
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Old 06-16-2005, 07:45 AM   #56
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wish i had a good ghost whos a mechanic to help me fix my car for free all the time...
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Old 06-16-2005, 08:18 AM   #57
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In my old house near Ottawa, part of it used to be an old funeral parlour. The livingroom was the showing area. It was an old Victorian-style house, and there was a piece of frosted glass in the front door that said the funeral parlour was operating in 1896. Anyhow, when my parents moved in they didn't think anything of it. It was a nice place, huge ceilings, etc. Then it started to happen.

They'd wake up in the morning to find all the cupboard doors open on the top row. You couldn't get to these cupboards unless you literally stood on the counter. Christmas decorations would literally fall down the tree and end up hung up somewhere else. Dad always said this creeped him out the most. Then as my brother and sister came along, mom said they'd always be pointing and laughing as babies into the corners of the dining room, and there head would follow something as if a person was in the room. The more kids my parents had, the less instances of paranormal activity happened. When we sold the place back in 93, we then got complaints that we sold the house as a lemon. Heat all of a sudden wasn't working, water was intermittent, etc. I figured they pissed off the ghost.

I know it may sound pretty crazy, but when you had these instances, there is obviously something beyond.
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Old 06-16-2005, 09:54 AM   #58
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Wow...what a discussion. I like hearing both sides of what people think...but for the skeptical, i would like to know, what explanation do you think there is for the stuff that happened to me? And other's stories on here, like Jim E's story about Jins. And for the record, I am quite sane and mentally stable...no mental illness in my family or anything that could mar my credibility.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigD
The main reason I don't believe in the supernatural is simple. It always happens where no one, or no one credible, can attest to it, or record it.
Dmitry, what does that say about me? Lol...not even that, but what if a reputable, stable public figure came out with a ghost story, would that change your perception of their sanity? Anyone would do...a politician, actor, race car driver, whatever...anyone who is publicly known to be a "credible" person in society.
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Old 06-16-2005, 12:37 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tekniq
There are other things we cannot see but exist eg,. gravity.

They used to say the earth was flat because it could nto be proved otherwise, or so they thought.

We are saying it's only possible. There is no evidence one way or another because man kind has not been able to develop the technoligy to sence/identify these things?
I am well aware of things that fall within or outside human perceptual ranges. I'm not arguing that things we cannot see don't exist. What I am saying, is that people claim to have seen ghosts.
For something to be seen by human eyes, it should emit/reflect light. If it is capable of that, then it must be composed of matter.

If ghosts are immaterial and exist in unseen, intangible dimensions, then it is impossible for them to be seen by human eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tekniq
What about a dog whistle? I'm sure that there are people on the planet that were developped a certain way that they are capable of hearing at those frequencies. Could it be that it's on a diffrent dimension/frquentcy?
The answer to that is no and no.
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Old 06-16-2005, 01:38 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e36chick
Dmitry, what does that say about me? Lol...not even that, but what if a reputable, stable public figure came out with a ghost story, would that change your perception of their sanity? Anyone would do...a politician, actor, race car driver, whatever...anyone who is publicly known to be a "credible" person in society.
A credible witness to me is someone who is unbiased and not highly impressionable and no offense, most girls are. If such a person, especially one scientifically educated, saw a ghost, and had the chance to investigate and eliminate all of the simplest explanations (walk around it, perform tests to make sure it's not a simple illusion or a lighting effect), then I would listen. But stories about what your grandma or brother told you, or seeing odd shapes in the dark is hardly evidence.

Think about it rationally. WHY is it that most of these types of ghost sightings are split second and it's always behind you or in the corner of your eye or something. Why is it so difficult to simply admit that it could be one of a billion possibilities and none of them have anything to do with anything extraordinary - anything from flashes of light outside reflecting into your room, overexcited and tired cells in your eyes glitching in the dark (ever see sunspots after looking at a bright light, same deal), birds or squirrels running around in your attic or HVAC ducts or something, and that you simply forgot that you took the socks up the stairs and dropped them there instead of down below. That last one is important. Memory is a tricky bastard. If you forget an event, you will swear on your grave that you didn't do something because as far as you're concerned, you didn't. But that doesn't change what really happened.

Maybe I'm wrong and you do have a ghost in your house that likes to play with your socks and leave them somewhere else... I don't know, but my belief is otherwise.
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