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Old 04-26-2005, 03:36 PM   #1
King Sirex
Join Date: Aug 2002
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hydrogen fuel discussion we had a while ago (update)

Those of you who took part in the hydrogen fuel discussion not long ago, I just read something pretty interesting on the intraweb, thought might be interesting to some of you

"Bacteria used to create Hydrogen - [Science]
Submitted by sendekyo on 4/26/2005 12:21:01 PM Add Comment

Researchers at Penn State university have discovered a new way of stimulating bacteria to extract hydrogen from bio-matter. The technique can yield four times as much hydrogen as fermentation alone, and unlike traditional fermentation, is not limited to carbohydrate based biomass.

Dr. Bruce Logan, professor of environmental engineering at Penn State, said that the microbial fuel cell (MFC) can theoretically be used to get high yields of hydrogen from any biodegradable, dissolved, organic matter - human, agricultural or industrial wastewater. At the same time, the process would clean the waste water.

Many researchers are working on new ways of generating hydrogen, in anticipation of it becoming a much more important fuel source in the future.

Logan commented: "While there is likely insufficient waste biomass to sustain a global hydrogen economy, this form of renewable energy production may help offset the substantial costs of wastewater treatment as well as provide a contribution to nations able to harness hydrogen as an energy source."

In a paper entitled Electrochemically Assisted Microbial Production of Hydrogen from Acetate, the researchers explain that the amount of hydrogen produced by bacteria is limited by the so-called fermentation barrier. Without extra power, bacteria will produce hydrogen and other dead-end products such as acetic and butyric acids.

With a small power injection, around 0.25 volts or about one tenth of that required for electrolysis, the bacteria will break acetic acid down further, releasing more hydrogen and some carbon dioxide.

Logan explains that the research team has used a microbial fuel cell that was developed to clean waste water, and produce electricity. By preventing oxygen from getting in, and adding a small amount of electricity, they found it would generate hydrogen instead.

When the bacteria eat biomass, they transfer electrons to the anode. The bacteria also release protons or hydrogen ions, which go into solution. The electrons on the anode migrate via a wire to the cathode, where they are electrochemically assisted to combine with the protons and produce hydrogen gas.
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Old 04-26-2005, 04:09 PM   #2
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wow. thats really cool.

the biomass electrochemical cells was like what I had on my chemistry exam this morning.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:26 PM   #3
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this is a more I say pratical way for now anyways.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:35 PM   #4
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i wish i could still burn pure oil.. those days are long gone
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Old 04-26-2005, 10:28 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by TheMadChigga

this is a more I say pratical way for now anyways.

i been to this company
awesome shit!!!
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Old 04-26-2005, 11:07 PM   #6
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wow, that is something interesting stuff.

Bio waste is actually is SOOOO huge, I have no idea why did they say there is not enough of it.

But that is another grate step towards hydrogen technology and fuel cell cars. I compleatly support it. !!!
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Old 04-27-2005, 07:06 PM   #7
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my teacher told me this would never happen cause we would be driving around with a potential hydrogen bomb, i know this cant be true or bmw wouldnt release it but i didnt know what to recourse with.
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Old 04-28-2005, 10:09 AM   #8
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well there is a significant difference between an H bomb, and a canister filled with Hydrogen.


H- Bomb: This is a much nastier bomb. Not only does it release much more energy, using a process called 'nuclear fusion', but it is triggered not by TNT, but by an atomic bomb!
The central core (B) is a mass made up of trillions of two kinds of atoms, which are both isotopes of hydrogen, called deuterium and tritium. (These are just hydrogen atoms with one or two extra neutrons in each nucleus). Small atomic bombs (A) scattered around the outside cause the deuterium and tritium to be squeezed into a very dense mass, which initiates a process called nuclear fusion, releasing great quantities of energy.
This process is difficult to achieve; it's been described as trying to squeeze an unopened can of Coke into a little ball without spilling any Coke!
But there's more! As the core explodes, it causes the bomb casing, (C), which is made from uranium, to undergo fission, creating even more energy. In other words, an atomic bomb sets off a fusion bomb, which also triggers another atomic bomb!

feel free to read the rest.. dont know how legit this website is, but it seems to have the just of things.

so really, a canister filled with hydrogen would not go off like an H bomb would be cause a) there would need to be a cataclysmic reaction that would force the hydrogen to be compressed to an extreme state in order for fusion to occur. A typical accident wouldn't do this. A puncture in the canister wouldn't do this. Maybe it would explode, but it wouldn't be any worse then a gas tank full of fuel catching fire.

Last edited by sirex; 04-28-2005 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 04-28-2005, 10:17 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by TheMadChigga

this is a more I say pratical way for now anyways.

This product doesn't produce hydrogen at the same scale that we were talking about. And 14 inchers width, by 20 inches length, by 20 inches height, this this is huge for the ammount of hydrogen it puts out.
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