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Old 04-23-2005, 10:13 PM   #16
grossi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlaselva
Some people try to re-invent the wheel.

Others take what works, and perfect on it.

I can understand that you may prefer another form of engine design, ie. perfer a high reving engine, a FI'ed motor, etc.
I have my preferences, but I don't then call the other form of engine topologies 'under-rated'. Every engine design has it's advantages and dis-advantages.

But to call it 'underrated' requires tangable and concrete reasons why, which you have yet to provide.
I understand, I shouldn't have said it was "over rated", I take that back. To be frank, I don't think there is any use in arguing because obviously we share differing opinions. However, I'll outline my issues with the engine. My opinion is primarily concerned with the age of the actual design. I think the hemi engine first came out during the 50's (not too sure the model or of the year). I think that the use of hemispherical combustion chambers is a little out dated, that's all. The engine makes amazing numbers, I'll give it that. The hemi design of the combustion chambers allows for more room for the valves, which I believe would also increase the airflow to the chambers. However, today, many cars utilize a 4-valve per cylinder design instead of the 2-valve per cylinder design on the HEMI engines. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be) but a larger combustion chamber, which the HEMI's possess, allow for more heat loss given the distance that the spark has to travel. As a result, a 4-valve per cylinder engine would be more efficient in my opinion allowing for less heat loss within the combustion chamber and such. Also, I believe that the more valves per cylinder, the more air available to be taken in. That's just my take. I shouldn't have knocked the engine, and I do apologize. I think I can speak for the majority of the individuals on this board by stating that we all joined to expose ourselves to opinions from other car enthusiasts, as well as provide our opinions. Anyways, that's my two cents, I may be wrong with my beliefs so feel free to correct me.

- Adam
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Old 04-23-2005, 10:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grossi
I'm just sayign that I think the hemi engines are out dated with their design and that there is a reason why engine development departed from the hemispherical design.
Sorry but your statement is totaly wrong. So whats next? Will you say that the GM pushrod V8's are out dated too?

I'm shure with time the displacement will come down and the power will increase in time on these big V8's due to the price of gas. Hell I wouldn't be suprised if they switch to diesel since Europe is starting to tune the hell out of diesel engines.
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Old 04-23-2005, 10:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M50E30
Sorry but your statement is totaly wrong. So whats next? Will you say that the GM pushrod V8's are out dated too?

I'm shure with time the displacement will come down and the power will increase in time on these big V8's due to the price of gas. Hell I wouldn't be suprised if they switch to diesel since Europe is starting to tune the hell out of diesel engines.
Maybe you should see my above post. I just meant it was outdated compared to whats out right now that's all, we're all entitled to our opinions I think.
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Old 04-23-2005, 10:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grossi
I understand, I shouldn't have said it was "over rated", I take that back. To be frank, I don't think there is any use in arguing because obviously we share differing opinions. However, I'll outline my issues with the engine. My opinion is primarily concerned with the age of the actual design. I think the hemi engine first came out during the 50's (not too sure the model or of the year). I think that the use of hemispherical combustion chambers is a little out dated, that's all. The engine makes amazing numbers, I'll give it that. The hemi design of the combustion chambers allows for more room for the valves, which I believe would also increase the airflow to the chambers. However, today, many cars utilize a 4-valve per cylinder design instead of the 2-valve per cylinder design on the HEMI engines. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be) but a larger combustion chamber, which the HEMI's possess, allow for more heat loss given the distance that the spark has to travel. As a result, a 4-valve per cylinder engine would be more efficient in my opinion allowing for less heat loss within the combustion chamber and such. Also, I believe that the more valves per cylinder, the more air available to be taken in. That's just my take. I shouldn't have knocked the engine, and I do apologize. I think I can speak for the majority of the individuals on this board by stating that we all joined to expose ourselves to opinions from other car enthusiasts, as well as provide our opinions. Anyways, that's my two cents, I may be wrong with my beliefs so feel free to correct me.
- Adam
No worries Adam, I just like playing devils advocate sometimes to initiate a good 'conversation' .... don't take me too seriously...

For example, in Corvette forums, I'll jump on Vette owners that poke at BMW's, especially my beloved E46 M3...
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Last edited by tlaselva; 04-23-2005 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 04-23-2005, 10:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlaselva
No worries Adam, I just like playing devils advocate sometimes to initiate a good 'conversation' .... don't take me too seriously...
I hope my post was helpful! Playing devils advocate is good to keep everyone open minded in my opinion. I mean in terms of bang for your buck, I will go on the recored stating that the HEMI's are at the top.
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Old 04-23-2005, 10:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grossi
Maybe you should see my above post. I just meant it was outdated compared to whats out right now that's all, we're all entitled to our opinions I think.
BTW i'm not trying to come off as rude......and your definatly entitled to your opinion. Also I didn't see that post since I was typing mine.

Just because something is "old" and it still works dosen't mean it is outdated. As the saying goes...."Ain't broke. Don't fix it!". But the funny thing is that Chrysler has hyped up the word "hemi".....but it shure has made them alot of $.

Interesting link......
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0403phr_hemi/
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Old 04-23-2005, 10:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M50E30
BTW i'm not trying to come off as rude......and your definatly entitled to your opinion. Also I didn't see that post since I was typing mine.

Just because something is "old" and it still works dosen't mean it is outdated. As the saying goes...."Ain't broke. Don't fix it!". But the funny thing is that Chrysler has hyped up the word "hemi".....but it shure has made them alot of $.

Interesting link......
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0403phr_hemi/
Yeah their marketing has been awesome, I have to admit. No problem, I thought maybe you didn't see the post! I didn't mean to intend that the engine is not effective, but by today's standards (i.e. 4-valves per cylinder) it is of old design. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, just check out their hp numbers! Like tlasleva said, I'm also sort of playing devil's advocate
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Old 04-23-2005, 10:42 PM   #23
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hahaha thats mad fast for a suv , i bet theres gonna be lots of races from esso to esso hehehehe. whats the fuel economy on that motha?
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Old 04-23-2005, 11:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious
hahaha thats mad fast for a suv , i bet theres gonna be lots of races from esso to esso hehehehe. whats the fuel economy on that motha?
Likely as bad as any 400+ HP SUV....

Is fuel economy is a concern if you can afford a 70K vehicle? Doubt it.
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Last edited by tlaselva; 04-23-2005 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 04-24-2005, 01:08 AM   #25
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all it needs is additional turbo a supercharger and i'll take one
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Old 04-24-2005, 01:25 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG_POWER
all it needs is additional turbo a supercharger and i'll take one
Well, current 5.7L Hemi's make an additional 140 HP on top of the 340 with a simple bolt on S/C.

I don't see why you couldn't add that on top of the 6.1 Hemi's 410 HP.

Hummm....550 HP SUV.
Best of all, all for the price of a loaded 4.4 X5...

Methinks it's time for a test drive.......
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Last edited by tlaselva; 04-24-2005 at 01:38 AM.
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Old 04-24-2005, 03:20 PM   #27
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technolgy cost money... *until u can make it CHEAP and efficent, both u guys lose in certain areas*
this hemi only has an average power/litre ratio, but cost lot less to, more torquey... something breaks, cheaper to fix as well...

the new M5 is nice, 5litre with 500hp, but u also trade off the torque, much higher technlogy, and probably cost double this car... and the more advanced a car is, higher chances of small electric crap going out on u
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Old 04-24-2005, 04:44 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windsor318is
in the end.... its still a chrysler product
Still Chrysler's is way better than Ford's or GM!!!!
With Daimler on their side things are changing for the better!
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Old 04-24-2005, 06:17 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windsorbmw
Still Chrysler's is way better than Ford's or GM!!!!
With Daimler on their side things are changing for the better!
It's common knowledge that the 300/Magnum/Charger line have many Merc parts.
I know for fact the suspension and tranny are from the E Class Mercs.
I'd suspect only good things will occur when Daimler's cars are being infused with Merc tech.
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Old 04-24-2005, 06:25 PM   #30
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cayenne > jeep

Not much of an SUV... with the centre exhausts how they gonna put a trailer hitch on it
really no shit... funny guy
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