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Old 04-11-2005, 10:55 PM   #1
windwagen
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It's time to set the HP straight

I'm tired of HP ratings...You know what I mean...a 280HP V6 that can't do any better than 7 sec 0-60. Or a 200HP motor that feels slightly faster than a shopping cart!

Those who know, realize that a motor's true output is the AREA under the curve on a dyno graph.

We need a new standard...Can we call it useable HP, or Useable torque? This would consider output over a range of engine speeds, not just the peak.

What should the units be? HPxRPM?? ft.lbxRPM?
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Old 04-12-2005, 03:05 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windwagen
I'm tired of HP ratings...You know what I mean...a 280HP V6 that can't do any better than 7 sec 0-60. Or a 200HP motor that feels slightly faster than a shopping cart!

Those who know, realize that a motor's true output is the AREA under the curve on a dyno graph.

We need a new standard...Can we call it useable HP, or Useable torque? This would consider output over a range of engine speeds, not just the peak.

What should the units be? HPxRPM?? ft.lbxRPM?
You are asking for too much.
It takes all the fun out of the discussion session after the fact.
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Old 04-12-2005, 03:57 PM   #3
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Sorry...I'm an engineer...so I appreciate numbers that are meaningful, not HP numbers made up in a marketing department .
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Old 04-12-2005, 04:05 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windwagen
Sorry...I'm an engineer...so I appreciate numbers that are meaningful, not HP numbers made up in a marketing department .
Well I'm an entertainer. I see a conflict of interest coming on.
Just kidding.
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Old 04-12-2005, 07:53 PM   #5
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Yeah, like G35 coupes with 300hp that are way slower than 280 HP 540i that way a lot more. I didn't beleive it until I handed one it's ass in my dad's car (he was on holidays), with 4 people in my car. It was quite sad.
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Old 04-12-2005, 09:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxe
Yeah, like G35 coupes with 300hp that are way slower than 280 HP 540i that way a lot more. I didn't beleive it until I handed one it's ass in my dad's car (he was on holidays), with 4 people in my car. It was quite sad.
HP is very similar to strength in humans. Just because someone can out squat you, does not mean they will beat you in a foot race. Although the numbers can be misleading, they are true numbers that measure power. They are just a factor of the speed equation.
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Old 04-13-2005, 12:11 AM   #7
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Ok, they may be true numbers, but a peak HP of 300@6000 RPM is very nice if you drive at 6000rpm all day long. For argument's sake, lets say that same motor makes only 200 HP at 3000 RPM. A 280 HP motor that makes 270 HP from 3000 has more USEABLE power.
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Old 04-13-2005, 11:17 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windwagen
Ok, they may be true numbers, but a peak HP of 300@6000 RPM is very nice if you drive at 6000rpm all day long. For argument's sake, lets say that same motor makes only 200 HP at 3000 RPM. A 280 HP motor that makes 270 HP from 3000 has more USEABLE power.
I agree totally.
Don't forget torque is more important then HP. If a vehicle has 300HP and 250 Torque vs 300 Hp and 340 Torque, well we know which vehicle is going to be faster.
Therefore we should consider when rating a vehicle not just on the HP curve but also the Torque curve.
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Old 04-13-2005, 12:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkness95m3
I agree totally.
Don't forget torque is more important then HP. If a vehicle has 300HP and 250 Torque vs 300 Hp and 340 Torque, well we know which vehicle is going to be faster.

Do we really know? There are simply too many variables to make that type of statement. Here is something to think about....let's take a 2002 M3 for example(333hp/262ftlbs), versus a 2004 545i(325hp/330ftlbs). Judging by your above statement, the 545i should win quite easily.
Would this happen in a quarter mile race? NEGATIVE.





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Old 04-13-2005, 12:56 PM   #10
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Lack of low end torque can be compensated with shorter gearing.
There's many factors to take into consideration when comparing the acceleration of 2 cars. There's weight, drivetrain losses, suspension setups, tires, gearing, etc.
Torque can work against you off the line.
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Old 04-13-2005, 01:50 PM   #11
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Well u wanna here something really sad my father was driving his 1998 M3 and some kid in his Neon SRT-4 pulled up beside him and wanted to race so my father hammers it and the kid hammers it and the F***in Neon smoked him, no my father now how to drive he used to race. So this is really starting to piss me off cause now these little friggin neons and now the Cobalt SS is beating our cars that we thought we amazing, dont get me wrong the M3 will smoke it on the track like braking and turning but on the straight and off the line where gone
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Old 04-13-2005, 01:55 PM   #12
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You think that's sad? I know a festiva that will smoke over 95% of the cars on this site
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Old 04-13-2005, 02:07 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by skillton
You think that's sad? I know a festiva that will smoke over 95% of the cars on this site
pffff, I know old beater style hyundai sonata that smoke 99% of the cars on this site...

come to think of it even festiva is i think from hyundai, or kia.
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Old 04-13-2005, 02:43 PM   #14
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What should the units be? HPxRPM?? ft.lbxRPM?
cool!

my E30 has 810,000 HPM's and 520,000 "rev torques"

not to mention 1.04 psi boost units at 100mph, and 8234 nawz turboz per litre
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Old 04-13-2005, 03:51 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Axxe
Yeah, like G35 coupes with 300hp that are way slower than 280 HP 540i that way a lot more. I didn't beleive it until I handed one it's ass in my dad's car (he was on holidays), with 4 people in my car. It was quite sad.
The 6-speed 298hp G35 coupe and the 6-speed 282hp 540i run very similar 1/4 mile times.
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