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Old 04-08-2005, 03:50 PM   #61
paulmon
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Something I wrote up for the MINI club that you guys might want to see regarding the new PAX system that the Trillium autocross is going to be using. I'm making assumptions that Trillium hasn't developed their own PAX (handicap) numbers and are using the SCCA PAX "out of the book."

Enjoy:

According to an email I got from BMWCC the autocross is moving to a SCCA PAX system. This is GREAT news as it should mean that classes are no longer brand specific and comparing times becomes much easier. The negative to this is that SCCA autocrosses tend to class cars that are more powerful in more difficult classes, as anyone who has run the BMW autocross knows, power isn't needed. What this means is that a supercharger pullied MCS will be classed in "SM" as in "Street Modified." This puts this car at a disadvantage unless you're doing everything in that class allowed by the rules.

PAX is a type of handicap system. Take for example a car in class "X" that is the top type of car you could possibly have for an autocross, some kind open wheel autocross king. In pax, the pax "factor" for that car would be a 1.0. This is used as a multiplier against that cars time. So pretend that on a typical 60 second course this "uber car" got 47 seconds flat. The PAX of 1.0 would mean his time would remain 47 seconds. Next enter a normal non modified "G-Stock" car, which is the SCCA class for the MINI Cooper S. According to here the PAX for GS is 0.782. Imagine the MCS had a 57 second run, you would take this an multiply it by the PAX and come up with a PAX corrected run of 44.574. All of a sudden the stock Cooper S just beat the "uber car" thanks to PAX.

Where this becomes a problem is when you do modifications to your car but don't do all of them that are allowed in the class, like adding a pulley to an MCS. A pullied MCS is instantly in Street Modified. The PAX for SM is 0.842. In the BMW autocross the difference between a pullied and non-pullied MCS is going to be next to nothing so let's assume the pullied car will also run 57 seconds. However the PAX corrected time for the pullied SM classed MCS is now 47.994 compared to 44.57 for the G-Stock MCS - Both the "uber car" and the G-Stock MCS beat the "Street Modified" MCS.

Now let's throw an H-Stock Cooper into the mix. He also won't be much, if any, slower than an MCS. Let's assume 57.3 seconds. His PAX is 0.777, he's PAX corrected time is 44.5221. All of a sudden he beats the "uber car" the MCS and the "Street Modified" MCS.

What does this mean? At the BMW autocross events the stock cars should suddenly do WAY better with PAX adjusted times than the modified cars. Why? Because SCCA PAX puts a heavy toll on power modified cars. Some mods like "increasing boost" instantly puts you in an unfavourable class if you haven't also done things like R-Comps etc.

What does this mean to you? It should mean the Schuler brothers won't be walking away with anything this year.

Here is a brake down of what the PAX would have done to the results of the June 10th/2004 autocross. I'm taking the FTD for that day as the 1.0 PAX. .

Name PAX Time PAX-Adjusted
Attila Schiller 1.0 0:54.45 0:54.45 (This car wouldn't typically be a 1.0 Pax this is just a way of comparison)

Now let's compare that to some of the other times:

Charles .842 57.80 48.66
Marcel (911) .837 55.81 46.71
Nik .777 59.33 46.09
Joe (echo) .777 60.15 46.73

Street Mod allowed for R-Comp tires. My time was 54.54.

paul .842 54.54 45.92

So I would have won. You might be thinking, of course, you're fast, you're good, blah, blah. When in actual fact I did well because the car was prepared well for the class. My R-Comps didn't allow for the other PAX factors in other classes to take away as much of my advatage.

However take me out of this and Nik suddenly becomes the winner. PAX is the reason that people prepare cars to specific classes. In SCCA an MCS is Street Modified doesn't stand a chance. This is one reason why the Cooper in H-Stock is becoming such a popular car.

Clear as mud?

Paul
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Old 04-08-2005, 05:05 PM   #62
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clear as mud.... I can't wait. I'm now debating if I should take my buddy's (modded) Honda S2000 (As planned) or my Girlfriend's (E30 Girl) bone-stock, high mileage, rotting 325is. Either way, you guys are all going down! lol
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Old 04-08-2005, 06:42 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMPOWERD
clear as mud.... I can't wait. I'm now debating if I should take my buddy's (modded) Honda S2000 (As planned) or my Girlfriend's (E30 Girl) bone-stock, high mileage, rotting 325is. Either way, you guys are all going down! lol
What about the Porsche?...not complete yet?
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Old 04-08-2005, 08:24 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMPOWERD
clear as mud.... I can't wait. I'm now debating if I should take my buddy's (modded) Honda S2000 (As planned) or my Girlfriend's (E30 Girl) bone-stock, high mileage, rotting 325is. Either way, you guys are all going down! lol
e30 stands a much better chance. You'll be classed in a modified class and unless you've done EVERYTHING in that class, including R-Comps, the S2000 won't have a favourable PAX.

FrankenMINI will most likely be in AM (A modified) where the PAX is 1.0. This is due to the fact that the engine was swapped and the car was coverted to RWD. However the fact I will run slicks (not R-comps but REAL slicks) might make up for that as the car is prepared to the full extent of the rules. Won't have to worry about FrankenMINI until at least the June Trillium event.

Paul
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Old 04-08-2005, 08:29 PM   #65
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Is there a chart with respect to the PAX rating for each specific class?

Thanks,

T.
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Old 04-08-2005, 08:38 PM   #66
paulmon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzM
Is there a chart with respect to the PAX rating for each specific class?

Thanks,

T.
Assuming the club goes with the SCCA classing and PAX you can find the chart
here.

Paul
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Old 04-10-2005, 12:20 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ara325
What about the Porsche?...not complete yet?

I think someone stole it before it was finished!
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Old 04-10-2005, 08:05 PM   #68
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Great turn out and a blast to attend... can't wait till the next one

T.
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Old 04-10-2005, 11:16 PM   #69
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oh man i had some fun today it was ****ing great but im ganna get some new rims and some different tires
i kinda put some wear on mine today lmao
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Old 04-11-2005, 01:36 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by MarkD
I think someone stole it before it was finished!
get the fvck outta here...another beast stolen! WTF!
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Old 04-11-2005, 02:22 PM   #71
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get the fvck outta here...another beast stolen! WTF!

Let me clarify, I was just joking, since it's taking so long to get that thing together.

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Old 04-11-2005, 05:48 PM   #72
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Let me clarify, I was just joking, since it's taking so long to get that thing together.

MarkD
ahhhhh, so this is what is known as sarcasm... cool
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