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Old 11-29-2004, 12:07 PM   #31
GEEE$
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtl_e30M3
What BMW (production model) has the fastest Nurburgring time and what is it. I've always wonderd why BMW does not prepare a limited edition supercar. Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, have all done it in different years. I think it would help boost their sportscar image.

Wait a minute? You mean besides the McLaren F1?




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Old 11-30-2004, 08:55 PM   #32
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McLaren isnt BMW, only the engine is.
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Old 12-01-2004, 01:18 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaio76109
McLaren isnt BMW, only the engine is.
so McLaren SLR isnt a Mercedes?
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Old 12-01-2004, 01:53 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by ///Milk
so McLaren SLR isnt a Mercedes?
only the engine of the McLaren F1 is by BMW. and that's all BMW did with all the car.

the car was built and design totally by McLaren, with McLaren's own money and facility. whereas, "Mercedes SLR McLaren" is built with Mercedes-Benz' money, engine, Mercedes-Benz' badge, and they are even using Mercedes-Benz' dealers to sell the car. so your point is really weak.

Pagani Zonda, on the other hand, although utilise AMG's 7.3L V12. but it is anything but a Mercedes-Benz. maybe this is a better example.
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Old 12-01-2004, 11:33 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by vaio76109
McLaren isnt BMW, only the engine is.

The nucleus of the entire car is powered by BMW, I reckon they don't need to produce another supercar solely by themselves, considering it's still a wondercar after 10 years. Everything runs in unicen, it's not like that V12 just happen to fit in the engine bay...they worked side by side for many years on this.

I would stand by this as primarily a BMW project, since virtually everything revolves around the engine. Just my 2 frackin pennies.


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Old 12-01-2004, 01:05 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEE$
The nucleus of the entire car is powered by BMW, I reckon they don't need to produce another supercar solely by themselves, considering it's still a wondercar after 10 years. Everything runs in unicen, it's not like that V12 just happen to fit in the engine bay...they worked side by side for many years on this.

I would stand by this as primarily a BMW project, since virtually everything revolves around the engine. Just my 2 frackin pennies.


G$
that's not very correct.
BMW already had the basis of the engine (from E34 M5) even before Gordon Murray approach Paul Rorsche, the director of BMW Motorsport at the time.

BMW simply just combine 2 E34 M5's I6 engine together with one crankshaft. because the engine wasn't developed with McLarenF1 in mind. the engine didn't really meet Gordon Murray's expectation, namely the weight of the engine was a lot heavier than what Murray wanted. however, the engine does output approximately 100bhp more than what Murray planed.

and that's all BMW involved with the McLarenF1 project. they just provide the engine, which they already had before they knew about the McLarenF1 project.
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Old 12-01-2004, 02:09 PM   #37
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So with your theory that makes a Zonda a Mercedes Benz then?

Im sorry but the McLaren is NOT a BMW, PERIOD!
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Old 12-01-2004, 06:19 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaio76109
So with your theory that makes a Zonda a Mercedes Benz then?

Im sorry but the McLaren is NOT a BMW, PERIOD!
no, my theory is that a Zonday, although powered by AMG, is anything but a Mercedes-Benz. just like McLarenF1 isn't a BMW. similarly, who would even think of Mustang V8 when they see a Koenigsegg CC/8S/R

however, you can deny the reason McLarenF1 is such a nice car is hugely because of its potent BMW engine.

SLR on the other hand, it's the opposite. not sure if you guys are aware of it, but the official name of the SLR is actually: "Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren".
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Old 12-01-2004, 06:23 PM   #39
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I was talking to GEE$, Ive agreed with everything youve said .

PS- I personally like the Koenigsegg more than the McLaren F1 and beleive its a better car.

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Old 12-01-2004, 06:29 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tifosi
that's not very correct.
BMW already had the basis of the engine (from E34 M5) even before Gordon Murray approach Paul Rorsche, the director of BMW Motorsport at the time.

BMW simply just combine 2 E34 M5's I6 engine together with one crankshaft. because the engine wasn't developed with McLarenF1 in mind. the engine didn't really meet Gordon Murray's expectation, namely the weight of the engine was a lot heavier than what Murray wanted. however, the engine does output approximately 100bhp more than what Murray planed.

and that's all BMW involved with the McLarenF1 project. they just provide the engine, which they already had before they knew about the McLarenF1 project.
McLaren engine is actually 2 euro e36 m3 engines combined, not e34 m5.
It originally it was developed for M8

McLaren is not BMW, but BMW factory raced McLaren F1. So its kinda BMW and kinda not.

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Old 12-01-2004, 06:56 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickFinga
McLaren engine is actually 2 euro e36 m3 engines combined, not e34 m5.
It originally it was developed for M8

McLaren is not BMW, but BMW factory raced McLaren F1. So its kinda BMW and kinda not.
incorrect.
"the S70/2 engine was derived directly from BMW production practise, inheriting many features proved in the 6-cylinder power unit for their M5 high-performance saloon."

the I6 from M5 was the basis for the engine in Euro-spec M3 though.
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:06 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by vaio76109
So with your theory that makes a Zonda a Mercedes Benz then?

Im sorry but the McLaren is NOT a BMW, PERIOD!


Regardless of 'opinions', because that's all everyone is debating here, ultimately it's a joint venture between two companies.

It's just my opinion that this project is heavily based on the engine, made by BMW. That's my theory...everything starts from the engine. Others may feel differently, but without that powerplant, that car wouldn't be where it is today.

Let's face it...every automotive system(supsension/brakes etc)is virtually secondary to an engine, regardless of how you label it.




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Old 12-02-2004, 09:12 AM   #43
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[quote=SickFinga]McLaren engine is actually 2 euro e36 m3 engines combined, not e34 m5.
It originally it was developed for M8

It was not a simple as connecting 2 M engines. Many changes to the internals and endless tuning was able to produce that 627 hp beast.
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:48 AM   #44
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Whether BMW had significant input in the drivetrain is unquestionable. However, in order to be considered a factory Supercar I'd say 80-90% of the total R&D and over 50% of the components should be from the manufacturer. Honestly I believe the budget and brand-image benefits of a Supercar would be way more productive for BMW than the M1, beagle (or whatever that thing is called), or even z8. BMW show me what you can do! Hell if you can produce a better sports car than McLaren or Enzo, I'd pick a M5 over a Modena. Enthusiasts appreciate the manufacturers accomplishments in Supercars and project it onto the manufacturers retail models. If BMW made the best Supercar and BMW's best retail car is the M5, then owning an M5 would draw way more attention and respect!
Mercedes is about refined power and all out luxury, BMW is about the most sporty and performing sedans. A Supercar would protect that positioning...
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