Click to go to Forum Home Click to go to maXbimmer Home

Go Back   maXbimmer Forums > General > General Discussion
User Name
Password


Welcome to Maxbimmer.com!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-10-2004, 07:06 PM   #16
rost12
big 'n' shiney
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 488
Quote:
Originally posted by bmwboy88
I take it that level 1 course objective is on safety driving?

For those who took level 1, what percentage of day is spent on the track and in class? Do you get much driving time or is it all theories in class and than a couple hours in the car?
Safety, yes. They reserve level 3 for "exciting" driving. And there's no "track" in level 1, there's a wet skidpad that's lots of fun And they don't bore you with theories, stuff they told me was actually useful. It's basic, but it's nice to be reminded of it once in a while
__________________
2004 996 C4Supercharged track-ho
2008 C6 RS6 wrong-hand-drive
2010 997 GT3.2 fridge on wheels
rost12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2004, 09:15 PM   #17
bmwboy88
3rd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Your Neighbourhood
Posts: 346
Thanks Guys for the inputs. I am so looking forward to the class in August.
__________________
BMW = ULTIMATE DRIVING SENSATION
bmwboy88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2004, 09:33 AM   #18
audiophilia
3rd Gear Member
 
audiophilia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 334
Quote:
Originally posted by BMWF1
So do they focus on driving or are they like any bmw employee and more or less trying to sell you a new bmw??
Absolutely not.

By implication, they are promoting BMWs. The cars, however, sell themselves. The tires, too!
__________________


www.audiophilia.com
The Online Journal for the Serious Audiophile
audiophilia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2004, 09:42 AM   #19
audiophilia
3rd Gear Member
 
audiophilia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 334
Re: BMWCC Driver Training > BMW Driver Training Level 1

Quote:
Originally posted by DINAN 3
The BMWCC (BMW Trillium Chapter) Driver Training at Mosport is MUCH better than the BMW Driver Training Level 1 course.
Totally different courses. 'Much better'? This is subjective. Apples and Oranges.

Quote:
Originally posted by DINAN 3
.....kept on screaming at me in my helmet "Stay on his ass ! STAY on his ass ! Keep up the pressure !".
I think the above shows the difference. The BMW first course is about preventative measures. The instructors are superb!

The BMW course is a real investment in your daily driving. The 30 odd oversteer spins and the fun auto X will add to the fun.

For me, I cannot tell you how much I appreciated using their cars.
__________________


www.audiophilia.com
The Online Journal for the Serious Audiophile
audiophilia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2004, 03:40 PM   #20
DINAN 3
6th Gear Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,194
Send a message via AIM to DINAN 3
Don't get me wrong...

The BMW club course still dedicates about a 25% of the day to car controll theory and accident avoidance techniques, but one can only do so many excersizes in a parking lot B4 you get bored out of your scull.
Most of us usually got them right after 2-3 tries and were looking forward to just getting on the track.
If cost is a factor, the BMW club course is MUCH cheaper, while offering no less than the official BMW driving school.

BTW: I'm in no way affiliated with the BMW Club.....in fact...my membership just recently expired.
DINAN 3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 11:10 AM   #21
alexm520
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 289
Re: Re: BMWCC Driver Training > BMW Driver Training Level 1

Quote:
Originally posted by audiophilia
Totally different courses. 'Much better'? This is subjective. Apples and Oranges.
I think the above shows the difference. The BMW first course is about preventative measures. The instructors are superb!
The BMW course is a real investment in your daily driving. The 30 odd oversteer spins and the fun auto X will add to the fun.
For me, I cannot tell you how much I appreciated using their cars.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DINAN 3
.....kept on screaming at me in my helmet "Stay on his ass ! STAY on his ass ! Keep up the pressure !".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, it is subjective. But lets see what you learn & spend your time in both courses (since I haven't attended BMW Canada Level I/II courses I will be going buy what's been posted here and other forums)

BMW Club of Canada (BMWCC): 2 days in total (16 hrs incld lunches and breaks) = $400 + $50 (membership) + $50 tech insp
BMW Canada (parking lot): 1 day (8 hrs guessing) = $500


BMWCC
Classroom sessions = 3 hrs (in Beginners "C" group; 2hrs in Intermediate "B"group)
Parking lot exercise = 4 hrs (in Beginners "C" group, 3 hrs in "B"); manuovering, accident avoidence, etc. including wet parking lot exercises)
TRACK Time with instructor = 4 hrs (approx)
Saturday BBQ dinner and drinks

BMW Canada (Level I / II)
Parking lot exercise = several hours (probably under 3 hrs for sure)
Classroom session/instructions = a couple of hours (under 2hrs ... someone said they don't spend too much time on theories)

I cannot speak for "DINAN 3", but it is EXTREMELY unlikely that an instructor would "screem" (or say) to a beginner student "C" who is attending this school for the 1st or 2nd time.... "to stay on his ass" (ie the car in front).

In my first BMWCC school, the instructor KEPT slowing me down.... all the time.

AFTER you been through SEVERAL BMWCC schools, an instructor MAY teach/encourage you that one way to PASS a faster car in front, IS TO STAY CLOSE BEHIND HIM (typically through a corner since a faser car typically pulls away on a straight away) in order TO GET A PASSING SIGNAL from a faster car in front.

2 IMPORTANT THINGS You drive at your comfort level, regardless even if your instructor encourages you to go faster (instructor will make his own evaluation of the student and decide accordingly if the student is capable of going faster BASED on several laps or just take it easy)

Second, because BMWCC is safety oriented, you CANNOT pass the car in front UNLESS it (the faster car) gives you a passing singal.
So, IF YOU WANT to pass the car in front, there are different techniques you can use; BUT you don't need or have to pass it .... you can just as easily and enjoyably drive behind it ..... chances are it will PULL AWAY from you on a straight section.

BUT you get a huge GRIN ON YOUR FACE, when you (in a lowly 328/330 start passing M3s (E36 ro E46), 911s/other Porsches, Corvettes and other much faster cars than yours...... BECAUSE you are a "FASTER driver in a slower car" on the track than they other "SLOWER driver in a faster car".


AlexM520
__________________
[under construction]

Last edited by alexm520; 07-13-2004 at 11:15 AM.
alexm520 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2004, 01:33 PM   #22
DINAN 3
6th Gear Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,194
Send a message via AIM to DINAN 3
DITO what "alexm520" said...

That's exactly how it goes down, except that I must have majorly lucked out with my instructor.
He was this 70 yr old guy with an English accent (wearing a funny hat) and he really fired me up.
If you ever go.....try to request him.
At first when he approached me, some of my fellow students grinned that I got pared up with the old guy, but looks sure were deceiving. In fact when I hesitantly, approaching the end of the long strait-away (Cayuga), let off the gas to early.....the next time around he would push down on my leg until it was time to let up.
I must say, I learned a ton and build up much greater confidence in my driving abilities that day.
Lesson learned = Better to invest in your driving skills first and then go out and throw 500 bucks towards some stupid Mod.

I guess it's all about how you bond with your instructor and the confidence he has in your abilities. I still remember the grin on his face, as we were passing cars occupied by fellow instructors he was buddies with. I agree.....it's quit the rush to pass a higher HP car, knowing that your new found skills are the culprit for that.

Hope all of you make it to a performance driver school one day !
When you do.....post your experience and encourage others to do the same.

Best,

Marv.

Last edited by DINAN 3; 07-14-2004 at 01:35 PM.
DINAN 3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2004, 09:35 PM   #23
bmwboy88
3rd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Your Neighbourhood
Posts: 346
In the BMW Driving Training Level 1 course, what is the ratio of instructor to students?
is it 1:1?
__________________
BMW = ULTIMATE DRIVING SENSATION
bmwboy88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2004, 12:22 AM   #24
rost12
big 'n' shiney
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 488
Quote:
Originally posted by bmwboy88
In the BMW Driving Training Level 1 course, what is the ratio of instructor to students?
is it 1:1?
1 instructor per 5-6 cars. they don't really need to ride with ya, you all will have walkies in the car and they'll be directing you and giving comments as you go.
__________________
2004 996 C4Supercharged track-ho
2008 C6 RS6 wrong-hand-drive
2010 997 GT3.2 fridge on wheels
rost12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2004, 12:46 AM   #25
alexm520
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 289
Quote:
Originally posted by rost12
1 instructor per 5-6 cars. they don't really need to ride with ya, you all will have walkies in the car and they'll be directing you and giving comments as you go.
OPPS Another big "minus" for the BMW Driver Training I/II .... you don't even get your dedicated instructor for $500 for one day.

PEOPLE ! Go and make donuts on a large empty parking lot of some big plaza (Like Yorkdale or Fairview) after it closes... FOR FREE.
Want to do "excercises in wet" .... no problem ... wait until it rains and go crazy on the same plazas' parking lot ... FOR FREE.

And for ONLY $15 (as long as you joined BWM Club of Canada - only $58/year) you can test your skills and car at SOLO2/autocrosses (also on parking lot). And guess what, other members AND instructors will give you their feedback ... FOR FREE.

http://www.trillium-bmwclub.ca/trill....jsp?Autocross

>>>> Not feeling ripped off by BMW Driver Training parking lot courses .... PRICELESS
__________________
[under construction]
alexm520 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2004, 01:24 AM   #26
DINAN 3
6th Gear Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,194
Send a message via AIM to DINAN 3
DITO again what alexm520 said

I was holding back, but you said it like it is.
BMW Driver Training = Big Ripe-Off
DINAN 3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2004, 09:03 AM   #27
rost12
big 'n' shiney
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 488
Lmao. Don't like it, don't go, geez. Go to the parking lot and trash your car without learning what's actually happening to it and why, wtf do we care

And no offense to you BMWCCA guys, but your instructors are just regular guys who think they can drive, for the most part... BMW hires professionals who are also good "teachers". Big diff. in my opinion.

Once again, though, I don't work for BMW driver training, I'm not trying to sell it to anyone. For me, it was worth my 500, as level 3 is going to be worth my 3000.

Cheers.
__________________
2004 996 C4Supercharged track-ho
2008 C6 RS6 wrong-hand-drive
2010 997 GT3.2 fridge on wheels

Last edited by rost12; 07-15-2004 at 09:08 AM.
rost12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2004, 09:18 AM   #28
audiophilia
3rd Gear Member
 
audiophilia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 334
Yeah, looks like this has become a pissing contest...



I've only done the BMW school. I enjoyed it. I'm sure the BMW Club courses are fine, too...both gotta be better than basic driver training.
__________________


www.audiophilia.com
The Online Journal for the Serious Audiophile
audiophilia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2004, 09:36 AM   #29
fitz318is
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 266
Re: Re: Re: BMWCC Driver Training > BMW Driver Training Level 1

Quote:
Originally posted by alexm520
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DINAN 3
.....kept on screaming at me in my helmet "Stay on his ass ! STAY on his ass ! Keep up the pressure !".


BUT you get a huge GRIN ON YOUR FACE, when you (in a lowly 328/330 start passing M3s (E36 ro E46), 911s/other Porsches, Corvettes and other much faster cars than yours...... BECAUSE you are a "FASTER driver in a slower car" on the track than they other "SLOWER driver in a faster car".

AlexM520
Think it feels good in a 328? Try it in a 318!
The last time I was there, the fastest person in our group was a 1987ish Golf with 130hp, he was very quick.

BMW Club Advance driver training is worth every penny.
fitz318is is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2004, 04:47 PM   #30
DINAN 3
6th Gear Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,194
Send a message via AIM to DINAN 3
Quote:
Originally posted by rost12
And no offense to you BMWCCA guys, but your instructors are just regular guys who think they can drive, for the most part... BMW hires professionals who are also good "teachers". Big diff. in my opinion.

Once again, though, I don't work for BMW driver training, I'm not trying to sell it to anyone. For me, it was worth my 500, as level 3 is going to be worth my 3000.

Cheers.
The choice is personal, but in my case.....I don't need no "Schumacher" to teach me how to drive and if I did...you would have seen me live at the Indy last weekend.

Whether Professionals or Amateur Racers are instructing us, I don't believe that either school is setup to make any of us Pro racers. For us to even reach the skill level of the lets assume lower qualified club instructor, I'm guessing we would need to amass a couple more hundred track hours under our belts.

All we are trying to say is that we find Level 1 & 2 rather pricey, considering there is barely any track time and no 1/1 Student/Instructor Ratio like the club offers. For that kind of coin, I don't want no instructions over a walkie-talkie !

In terms of Level 3.....@ 3000 bucks...you would probably be better off at the "Skip Barber" Racing School.
All and all, I can personaly vouch for the teaching abilities of the club staff.
Again, I'm in no way affiliated with the BMW club and as mentioned before, I even let my membership expire a short while ago.

In conclusion, if the club didn't offer the quality program at the dirt cheap price they do, I would be right there with you at the official BMW Driver Training Courses.

Last edited by DINAN 3; 07-15-2004 at 04:52 PM.
DINAN 3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Maxbimmer Copyright 2001 - 2014