Click to go to Forum Home Click to go to maXbimmer Home

Go Back   maXbimmer Forums > General > General Discussion
User Name
Password


Welcome to Maxbimmer.com!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-18-2004, 03:28 AM   #46
BMW540i
1st Gear Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: okc
Posts: 21
lastly
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 111111111.jpg (55.3 KB, 90 views)
BMW540i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2004, 03:36 AM   #47
SpoolinS6
6th Gear Member
 
SpoolinS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,537
M3 M3 M3 M3 M3 M3 M3 M3 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
1995 Audi S6
HI BOOST
SpoolinS6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2004, 03:59 AM   #48
Lennon
6th Gear Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Victoria, British Columbia
Posts: 3,379
Send a message via ICQ to Lennon Send a message via MSN to Lennon
Haha, awww Terry, its ok.
__________________
1990 735iL under construction.....
Lennon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2004, 03:23 PM   #49
crazyvadim
6th Gear Member
 
crazyvadim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 2,178
Send a message via AIM to crazyvadim
Nice car!
So how you like it so far,miss the growl of a V8?? you think you made the right choice trading in the 5??
crazyvadim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2004, 04:31 PM   #50
Mitch555
Retired MaXmember!
 
Mitch555's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 3,989
NIIIIIIIICE CAR!!!!!!!
__________________


MY ENGINE SWAP: HERE!

Life Is A Tough Teacher, It Gives You The Test Then The Lesson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystikal
just do it once, do it right.
Mitch555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2004, 04:33 PM   #51
BigD
the misanthropist
 
BigD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: a house
Posts: 6,156
No it certainly isn't. I'm not sure the extent of this on the new M cars, since they're no longer hand built, but up to the E34, all M cars were hand built. A raw chassis would arrive at the plant, and they would start by stiffening it. Then it has all kinds of exclusive components. Driveline obviously, suspension, brakes, hell even the steering box. That's why "conversions" are worth squat compared to the real thing. To make a non M car into an M car would take more money than it would to buy the real thing.

And artist formerly known as BMW540I, don't worry about the 1st to 2nd shift. First gear is extremely short, designed to make it easy to match the revs of the wheels (0) to the engine (usually ~1900). So unless you redline it, when you go into 2nd, you may have to slip the clutch a little again so you don't get the jerk.

Try to learn your clutch work fast. A clutch job on that car will cost you a Hyundai. It's all about feel. Soon your foot will learn where the clutch begins to catch and you will do it fast and clean every time. Here's something I tried when I was learning. Go to a parking lot, come to a stop, and try launching the car with no gas. This way, if you don't want to stall it since the engine has so little torque at this point, you have to know where to hold the clutch so it slips just enough to not kill the engine and keep rolling. After you get this perfect, then in a normal launch, you just give it some gas to about 1900 revs, hold it at the slip point for just a little, and once your car gets rolling, at the same time let out the clutch (COMPLETELY - more in a sec) and give it more gas.

A big mistake new drivers make is overdo the clutch. Here's another good exercise. Drive around that parking lot, shifting 1,2,3, and stopping again. And keep your left foot on the dead pedal. Resist the temptation to hover over the clutch with all your might. ONLY put the left foot over the clutch when you will push it in. As you master it, you will decide how to best plant your feet etc for comfort and performance, but for now, be aware of your left foot. The reason this is a problem is new drivers will unconsciously not let the clutch out completely. Especially in stressfull situations like traffic or when they try to accelerate fast. This will kill it in no time.

Oh, and another good thing to practice every now and then, is when you are coming up to a stop, try to pop the box out of gear without the clutch. Be ready with the clutch since if you don't get it right, you will um, keep going. Pulling out of gear without the clutch has no possible negative consequences mechanically. But if your revs aren't matched to the wheel speed, it won't come out - the pressure on the gears will resist - from you either still accelerating or decelerating. This is a good way to learn how to hold and control engine speed which will give you those butter smooth up and downshifts. This is the big difference from an automatic. In an auto, as long as you see the revs rising, you know that you're probably going to be accelerating too. With the manual, whatever happens to the engine, happens to the wheels - ie hard link instead of a soft link.

When you get the basics, come back and me and the guys will tell you about more fun things like downshifting and heel-and-toe.

Quote:
Originally posted by crazyvadim
The main and i think the only difference is the engine.So if you drop an M engine into an non M sport model,then you dont got an M car?
__________________
BigD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2004, 09:55 PM   #52
BMW540i
1st Gear Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: okc
Posts: 21
Man, I sure APPRECIATE the lesson on how to shift properly!! I need more practice for sure. I'm getting a bit better at it though...less stalling but I feel I could go a bit smoother.
Can you tell me what NOT to do? What kind of things I could do to kill the clutch? So the warrantee won't cover the clutch?

To be honest, I think my old 540i had alot of torque compared to the M3. The M3 is louder...engine sounds raw, rather than refined. The M3 is more agile. My old 540 had more luxury features like better stereo system. I had premium sound upgrade on the 540....the M3's Harmon Karman ain't nothing compared to the 540's. I can't believe I didn't even get an alarm system with the M3!! I forgot to check to see if it was included..thinking all luxury car in 50K+ should have it. The M3 doesn't have anti-glair rear view mirror...you know at night when the car's yellow light behind you look green rather than yellow...but if they had xenon..then it still looks xenon. The M3 isn't that smaller than the 540. In fact the interior space is about the same... I like the fold down back seats. That was missing in my 540.

I need more lesson on shifting please. Especially at what RPM to shift...or do you just listen to the engine noise? Do you shift according to what MPH or RPM???

Thanks
BMW540i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2004, 10:11 PM   #53
Mitch555
Retired MaXmember!
 
Mitch555's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 3,989
Quote:
Originally posted by BMW540i
I need more lesson on shifting please. Especially at what RPM to shift...or do you just listen to the engine noise? Do you shift according to what MPH or RPM???

Thanks
Well.... you can shift at any rpm that you want to but the average person usually shifts anywhere between 2500 - 3000RPM.

But then again.... everyone is different..... I like to shift at higher RPM's!
__________________


MY ENGINE SWAP: HERE!

Life Is A Tough Teacher, It Gives You The Test Then The Lesson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystikal
just do it once, do it right.
Mitch555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2004, 10:36 PM   #54
BigD
the misanthropist
 
BigD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: a house
Posts: 6,156
No problem! We've all been there, we know how frustrating it is.

The biggest thing NOT to do with the clutch is letting it slip anymore than necessary. Thing of the clutch as a big brake pad. It will last quite a bit, but every time you slip the clutch, the brake pad wears. It pisses me off when I see people at red lights on an incline and instead of putting their foot on the brake, they sit there slipping the clutch to hold the car (or rolling back and forth). That will eat up the clutch in NO time.

Also, don't get tempted by people to shift without the clutch. Whle it's possible, and on old non-syncro gearboxes, is safe, on your car it is not. Even if you get really good, and think you are getting it perfectly, you will still be wearing the syncros.

As for when to shift, that's up to you and your mood. You can shift at redline, you can shift at 2000 rpm. Generally 3-3500 rpm is fine for easy driving. I like to shift at around 4 (and I don't have your redline). This is around where most cars' peak torque is. Just go by your ear. If it sounds like the engine is working a little too hard for your current liking, upshift. When you're going crazy, after 1st, you can simply clutch,shift, and floor it as you drop the clutch. That will provide the best acceleration results. Also, the higher you let it rev before shifting, the more gas you will have to hold for the next gear to get a smooth shift.

One more thing, shift as fast as you possibly can. By that I mean, when you pop the clutch, throw the stick as quickly as you can without making it feel clumsy. While the clutch is disengaged, your tranny is disconnected from the engine, but there is still a shaft (called half shaft) that you connect your wheels to via shifting. When you disengage the clutch, this shaft spins at the speed of the engine and the longer you wait, the more it slows down. That's a pretty minor thing. The most important here is the fact the higher you rev, the more revs you will have to hold for your next gear. As a rule of thumb, the next gear up will require ~2500 rpm less engine speed (in your car maybe more). This is fine on regular engines that have heavy components and flywheels. So as you pop the clutch and shift, they decelerate slowly enough that when you engage the clutch and gas it, the revs will be close enough for a smooth shift. But in your car, the engine will decelerate much quicker. So you have to shift faster in order to catch the engine at the right time. Don't bother trying to hold the revs (except maybe for 1st - 2nd, that will help if you hold like 1/5 throttle), just move quicker.

Never force 1st gear (and if you're learning downshifting already, never downshift into 1st). Let the car come to a complete stop before engaging 1st (or almost complete). If it won't go, back off immediately. Think of 1st as a gear exclusively for getting you started. Even in stop and go traffic, you can usually get away with 2nd only. 1st is a very short gear and the difference in engine and wheel speed is drammatic so the syncros will have low odds of catching.

Here are some cool stick holding tips I read in a racing mag. 1st is common sense and no big deal. When you throw it into 2nd, apply pressure with your palm to the 1-2 o'clock side of the lever, so you have both left and back pressure. For third, push straight forwar with your palm, not holding the stick side-side. The return springs will center the stick for you (you may want to help it just a little if you're really going nuts). For 4th, pull the stick straight back with your thumb down (ie hold the stick in your hand as if giving thumbs down) - usually you just pull with the top fingers (ring/pinky). This way you ensure you don't hit 2nd. For 5th, put your palm almost completely on the left side. The sideways pressure should be most important. You DON"T want to hit 3rd here. Don't try to hold the stick at the top and pull it over with your thumb. I assume you have a 6 speed right? For 6th same as the 4th, but apply some sideways pressure while pulling straight back.

Have fun!

Quote:
Originally posted by BMW540i
Man, I sure APPRECIATE the lesson on how to shift properly!! I need more practice for sure. I'm getting a bit better at it though...less stalling but I feel I could go a bit smoother.
Can you tell me what NOT to do? What kind of things I could do to kill the clutch? So the warrantee won't cover the clutch?

To be honest, I think my old 540i had alot of torque compared to the M3. The M3 is louder...engine sounds raw, rather than refined. The M3 is more agile. My old 540 had more luxury features like better stereo system. I had premium sound upgrade on the 540....the M3's Harmon Karman ain't nothing compared to the 540's. I can't believe I didn't even get an alarm system with the M3!! I forgot to check to see if it was included..thinking all luxury car in 50K+ should have it. The M3 doesn't have anti-glair rear view mirror...you know at night when the car's yellow light behind you look green rather than yellow...but if they had xenon..then it still looks xenon. The M3 isn't that smaller than the 540. In fact the interior space is about the same... I like the fold down back seats. That was missing in my 540.

I need more lesson on shifting please. Especially at what RPM to shift...or do you just listen to the engine noise? Do you shift according to what MPH or RPM???

Thanks
__________________
BigD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2004, 10:37 PM   #55
BigD
the misanthropist
 
BigD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: a house
Posts: 6,156
Those people are called homersexuals.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mitch555
Well.... you can shift at any rpm that you want to but the average person usually shifts anywhere between 2500 - 3000RPM.

But then again.... everyone is different..... I like to shift at higher RPM's!
__________________
BigD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2004, 10:46 PM   #56
Mitch555
Retired MaXmember!
 
Mitch555's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 3,989
Quote:
Originally posted by BigD
Those people are called homersexuals.
Whatz a homersexual? lol
__________________


MY ENGINE SWAP: HERE!

Life Is A Tough Teacher, It Gives You The Test Then The Lesson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystikal
just do it once, do it right.
Mitch555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2004, 11:31 PM   #57
BigD
the misanthropist
 
BigD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: a house
Posts: 6,156
A politically correct queer

Quote:
Originally posted by Mitch555
Whatz a homersexual? lol
__________________
BigD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2004, 11:51 PM   #58
bimmerdude
4th Gear Member
 
bimmerdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 639
lol all i have to say is bmw540i nice car and i think its time to change ur name now to bmwm3 or something similar (if its taken)
__________________

Viva BMW!
Thanks E46_Lover for the awesome sig
My ///M5 fund has begun estimated time : 2 years

BMW M Power
bimmerdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2004, 01:49 AM   #59
crazyvadim
6th Gear Member
 
crazyvadim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 2,178
Send a message via AIM to crazyvadim
Quote:
Originally posted by BigD
No problem! We've all been there, we know how frustrating it is.

The biggest thing NOT to do with the clutch is letting it slip anymore than necessary. Thing of the clutch as a big brake pad. It will last quite a bit, but every time you slip the clutch, the brake pad wears. It pisses me off when I see people at red lights on an incline and instead of putting their foot on the brake, they sit there slipping the clutch to hold the car (or rolling back and forth). That will eat up the clutch in NO time.

Also, don't get tempted by people to shift without the clutch. Whle it's possible, and on old non-syncro gearboxes, is safe, on your car it is not. Even if you get really good, and think you are getting it perfectly, you will still be wearing the syncros.

As for when to shift, that's up to you and your mood. You can shift at redline, you can shift at 2000 rpm. Generally 3-3500 rpm is fine for easy driving. I like to shift at around 4 (and I don't have your redline). This is around where most cars' peak torque is. Just go by your ear. If it sounds like the engine is working a little too hard for your current liking, upshift. When you're going crazy, after 1st, you can simply clutch,shift, and floor it as you drop the clutch. That will provide the best acceleration results. Also, the higher you let it rev before shifting, the more gas you will have to hold for the next gear to get a smooth shift.

One more thing, shift as fast as you possibly can. By that I mean, when you pop the clutch, throw the stick as quickly as you can without making it feel clumsy. While the clutch is disengaged, your tranny is disconnected from the engine, but there is still a shaft (called half shaft) that you connect your wheels to via shifting. When you disengage the clutch, this shaft spins at the speed of the engine and the longer you wait, the more it slows down. That's a pretty minor thing. The most important here is the fact the higher you rev, the more revs you will have to hold for your next gear. As a rule of thumb, the next gear up will require ~2500 rpm less engine speed (in your car maybe more). This is fine on regular engines that have heavy components and flywheels. So as you pop the clutch and shift, they decelerate slowly enough that when you engage the clutch and gas it, the revs will be close enough for a smooth shift. But in your car, the engine will decelerate much quicker. So you have to shift faster in order to catch the engine at the right time. Don't bother trying to hold the revs (except maybe for 1st - 2nd, that will help if you hold like 1/5 throttle), just move quicker.

Never force 1st gear (and if you're learning downshifting already, never downshift into 1st). Let the car come to a complete stop before engaging 1st (or almost complete). If it won't go, back off immediately. Think of 1st as a gear exclusively for getting you started. Even in stop and go traffic, you can usually get away with 2nd only. 1st is a very short gear and the difference in engine and wheel speed is drammatic so the syncros will have low odds of catching.

Here are some cool stick holding tips I read in a racing mag. 1st is common sense and no big deal. When you throw it into 2nd, apply pressure with your palm to the 1-2 o'clock side of the lever, so you have both left and back pressure. For third, push straight forwar with your palm, not holding the stick side-side. The return springs will center the stick for you (you may want to help it just a little if you're really going nuts). For 4th, pull the stick straight back with your thumb down (ie hold the stick in your hand as if giving thumbs down) - usually you just pull with the top fingers (ring/pinky). This way you ensure you don't hit 2nd. For 5th, put your palm almost completely on the left side. The sideways pressure should be most important. You DON"T want to hit 3rd here. Don't try to hold the stick at the top and pull it over with your thumb. I assume you have a 6 speed right? For 6th same as the 4th, but apply some sideways pressure while pulling straight back.

Have fun!
Holy shit,how long did it take to write that up??
After reading that i feel like im back in automotive tech school and your like a instructor
crazyvadim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2004, 01:57 AM   #60
BigD
the misanthropist
 
BigD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: a house
Posts: 6,156
LOL not long actually. I type pretty fast so, I guess as long as it took me to think of all that shit...

Quote:
Originally posted by crazyvadim
Holy shit,how long did it take to write that up??
After reading that i feel like im back in automotive tech school and your like a instructor
__________________
BigD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.