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Old 02-06-2004, 05:49 AM   #1
Autotechnica
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Sway bar questions

I've got a Dinan 27.2mm front sway bar and an '98 M3 20mm rear sway bar.

The Dinan bar is much thicker than the M3 front bar so the front end would be stiffer making the car understeer. If I want to counter understeer, should I...

A - get a thicker rear sway bar
B - set the Dinan front bar to it's softest setting
C - go with the M3 front and rear sways (will require welding to front struts)

The bars will be installed soon, I'm just leaving myself open to options since I don't want an increase in understeer. I guess what I'm really asking is will the "softest" setting on the front Dinan bar balance out the thinner less stiff rear M3 bar in terms of handling. I don't want an incrediably tail happy car either.

The front Dinan bar has 3 adjustments, the rear M3 bar has none. How does the fact that the rear M3 bar has no adjustments affect the overall stiffness?

I want to get these installed, and I would glady test it out by trial and error. However, weather does not permit this, plus my winter tires are different front and rear, so that wouldn't really show the proper handling characteristics.

thanks a bunch!

Bry
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Last edited by Autotechnica; 02-06-2004 at 05:52 AM.
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Old 02-06-2004, 06:00 AM   #2
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I say go with 'B', it's the cheapest option (free) and the one you should try first.

Then try the options that involve money, provided that you're installing the swaybars yourself.
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Old 02-06-2004, 06:08 AM   #3
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I think your choices are equaly good, but:

A - get a thicker rear sway bar= Do you want to buy another sway bar?

B - set the Dinan front bar to it's softest setting= Is it going to work, due to limited testing posibility in winter!

C - go with the M3 front and rear sways (will require welding to front struts)=if you have one, i say go for it! The M is a heavyer car, so i think on your car they should work as well as aftermarker ones, like Dinan....
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Old 02-06-2004, 03:22 PM   #4
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Good advice guys, thanks.

There's only one problem, if the M3 rear bar doesn't work out I can't get the rear bar off Dinan. I've tried to contact them and they aren't willing to sell me just the rear bar. They must be sold as a set (front and rear). Any idea where I could just get the Dinan rear bar?

The Dinan rear bar for 318's are 21mm and the one for the 6 cyl's are 22mm. The 4 and 6 cyl Dinan front bars are the same (27.2mm). The Dinan rear bar is only 1mm thicker than the M3 rear bar. However, I'm sure 1mm of thickness is equal to a much stiffer bar. I suppose it also depends on what material and shape the bar is.

So I'll give it a try. The front bar is easy to install. But after reading about the rear sway bar installs it looks like hell! So hopefully I won't have any problems with the M3 rear bar.

Also, does any particular 3 series have a thicker bar than the M3? (more than 20mm).

Oh and for the last option, I'm afraid to have the M3 sway conversion brackets welded onto my front struts for Bilstein warranty purposes. You think they will still cover a front strut with a welded bracket on it? I seriously doubt it since it has been modified.

Thanks,

Bryan
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Last edited by Autotechnica; 02-06-2004 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 02-06-2004, 03:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Autotechnica
So I'll give it a try. The front bar is easy to install. But after reading about the rear sway bar installs it looks like hell! So hopefully I won't have any problems with the M3 rear bar.

Oh and for the last option, I'm afraid to have the M3 sway conversion brackets welded onto my front struts for Bilstein warranty purposes. You think they will still cover a front strut with a welded bracket on it? I seriously doubt it since it has been modified.
The rear bar isn't too hard, but it's not easy, just tight in some spots, I remember having to lower the exhaust a couple inches to gain access to something.

Regarding your Bilstein warrenty, yes you can kiss it good by. You're better off just getting M3 struts with the tabs already on.
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Old 02-06-2004, 06:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Autotechnica
The Dinan rear bar is only 1mm thicker than the M3 rear bar. However, I'm sure 1mm of thickness is equal to a much stiffer bar. I suppose it also depends on what material and shape the bar is.



Also, does any particular 3 series have a thicker bar than the M3? (more than 20mm).

Bryan
Bryan,

Going from a 20mm to 21mm rear will will increase stiffness by 22%.

The largest stock E36 rear bar is the 20mm M3 from the '96> cars.

Rob
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Old 02-07-2004, 02:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tunerworks
Bryan,

Going from a 20mm to 21mm rear will will increase stiffness by 22%.

The largest stock E36 rear bar is the 20mm M3 from the '96> cars.

Rob
22% is a quite a bit. Do you think I will have some serious understeer? How does the 3 different adjustments on the front bar affect stiffness? And how significant are the differences from say the softest setting to the stiffest?

You wouldn't happen to be a Dinan dealer would you? If so, let me know if you can get me the Dinan rear bar (21mm). The guys at Dinan can be a little stubborn.

Thanks Rob,

Bryan
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Last edited by Autotechnica; 02-07-2004 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 02-08-2004, 07:33 PM   #8
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Re: Sway bar questions

Quote:
Originally posted by Autotechnica
The Dinan bar is much thicker than the M3 front bar so the front end would be stiffer making the car understeer.
Not exactly true.

Regular 3series bar has to be thicker due to the connection points on the Control Arms. M3 one applies more leverage through the struts, and hence doesn't have to be as thick.

Put the DINAN one on the car and go for a ride. You can always adjust the DINAN one to the lowest setting, or play around with the tire pressures.

SL

PS BTW Are you doing all these mods just for show?
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Old 02-08-2004, 07:51 PM   #9
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Re: Re: Sway bar questions

Quote:
Originally posted by KIRASIR
PS BTW Are you doing all these mods just for show?
Heh, he DOES have quite an impressive list.

I say put the front bar on soft and see if that's adequate F-R balance. If it's not, go for a thicker rear bar.
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Old 02-08-2004, 08:43 PM   #10
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Re: Re: Sway bar questions

Quote:
Originally posted by KIRASIR
Not exactly true.

Regular 3series bar has to be thicker due to the connection points on the Control Arms. M3 one applies more leverage through the struts, and hence doesn't have to be as thick.

Put the DINAN one on the car and go for a ride. You can always adjust the DINAN one to the lowest setting, or play around with the tire pressures.

SL

PS BTW Are you doing all these mods just for show?
I know what you mean, but I was making a comparasion based upon Dinan's rear 21mm compared to the M3's 20mm rear bar. The Dinan 21mm rear bar was made to work with the Dinan 27.2mm front bar. Decreasing the rear bar to 20mm of the M3 bar would make quite a big difference in the overall stiffness of the rear end (maybe). Depending on how Dinan's sway bars were designed, I'll either have more oversteer than before but not as much as with the Dinan rear bar or I'll have more understeer than before (using the rear M3 bar).

I still have one more question. If I set the Dinan front bar to soft, what will the rear M3 bar be? It has no adjustments so what setting would it be comparable to on the Dinan rear bar which has 2 settings (soft or hard?)

I know these questions are a long shot, but hoping someone will know.

Also, Serge don't think sway bars can be a "show" item. Can't see it unless you stick your head under the car I'm joining some track days this summer so should be fun. I can't take how tight the auto-x courses are. Actually that's a poor excuse, what I really can't take are the really early starting times

Bry
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Old 02-09-2004, 12:44 AM   #11
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Seb, WTF? Did u have to come out like this? U could have at least dedicated a whole thread to coming out of the closet... im pretty sure, that would have been courage enough for jon to come out tooo.....

BTW, is there sway bars like this for the e30, adn if so, how much?
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Old 02-09-2004, 01:05 AM   #12
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lol its my stupid friend at my house -if a mod can delete those posts
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Old 02-09-2004, 06:12 AM   #13
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lol its my stupid friend at my house -if a mod can delete those posts
Sure it was your friends, we understand.....

j/k man, unwanted posts taken care of.
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