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Old 01-28-2004, 05:06 AM   #16
SCNISTER
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Quote:
Originally posted by thinair
Drag racing is a different story, especially when you're talking about high strung multi thousand horsepower engines. You'd need a huge multidisk clutch setup and and extremely strong left leg if you want to work that clutch.

Drag cars use them more for practicality then anything else. Who wants to replace their clutch everytime they hit the track? (On very high horsepower engines)
Considering most high HP engines require some type of rebuild after a race, a clutch replacement wouldn't be the issue that turns them off. If a manual box was truly the best, they'd use it despite the cost on all dragsters.

They use them for their consistancy and for their amazing launches. Nothing beats a wheels up launch with a high stall converter!
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Old 01-28-2004, 05:16 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by SCNISTER
Considering most high HP engines require some type of rebuild after a race, a clutch replacement wouldn't be the issue that turns them off. If a manual box was truly the best, they'd use it despite the cost on all dragsters.

They use them for their consistancy and for their amazing launches. Nothing beats a wheels up launch with a high stall converter!
That is what I was trying to say, a clutch setup would slip, the 6000hp that your average top fuel dragster has is a lot of horsepower, and for it not to slip no one could physically use the clutch, or if they could, not fast enough to be competitive. And once heat takes over the clutch assembly, there would be no consistancy.

But for 'low' horsepower, say 600hp or less, I'd still go manual, but that's just me. It really depends a lot on the car too. If you're in a domestic drag car you're more then likely going to be using an auto tranny with a shift kit and high stall converter. But if you're in an import (excluding mercedes), you're more then likely going to sporting a manual which a heavy duty clutch kit. How many high horsepower drag Porsches, Supras, Skylines, etc do you see with automatics right?

For 'normal' performance street driving, I'll take my manual.

In the end it's personal opinion.
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Old 01-28-2004, 05:24 AM   #18
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You sure dragsters use automatic, not sequential gearboxes?


Cause i see them shift up.
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Old 01-28-2004, 06:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by thinair
That is what I was trying to say, a clutch setup would slip, the 6000hp that your average top fuel dragster has is a lot of horsepower, and for it not to slip no one could physically use the clutch, or if they could, not fast enough to be competitive. And once heat takes over the clutch assembly, there would be no consistancy.

But for 'low' horsepower, say 600hp or less, I'd still go manual, but that's just me. It really depends a lot on the car too. If you're in a domestic drag car you're more then likely going to be using an auto tranny with a shift kit and high stall converter. But if you're in an import (excluding mercedes), you're more then likely going to sporting a manual which a heavy duty clutch kit. How many high horsepower drag Porsches, Supras, Skylines, etc do you see with automatics right?

For 'normal' performance street driving, I'll take my manual.

In the end it's personal opinion.
With my next car, I'm most likely going with the 6 speed option. I don't spend enough time at the track to warrant a built auto, but would rather prefer the grunt of the 6 speed on city streets and highways

When I refer to "dragster" I'm not referring to all "dragsters". I'm more reffering to drag racing in general and that the tranny of choice tends to be the slushbox.
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Old 01-28-2004, 06:39 AM   #20
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if both the manuel and auto are the same power

there is no chance for the auto to beat the manuel

unless ofcourse the manuel driver misses every shift, that includes stalling it at the line
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Old 01-28-2004, 12:08 PM   #21
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With the high HP engines, the revs will go up so fast that an automatic will handle the power much better than an manual, and they have so much power, that the torque converter loss is chumps change.

But for a street car, with OEM trans, for sure manual is faster than automatic. This is especially more evident in engines with small displacement. In my owners manual, it shows that the manual trans 318ti is a second faster than the automatic 318ti from 0-60.
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Old 01-28-2004, 01:46 PM   #22
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In a street car a Manual would definitly win out over an Auto....Tourque converters are just not efficient enough and drivetrain loss is a definit issue, even if it is only 5-7 hp loss, that could make or break the race. but not only that, with a manual you can push the car a little harder ie. into the red a little. You can shift when you want, and it gives that little edge.

Also there is no comparison if we are talking about a road course with turns, cuz then the manual really shows its stuff, being able to downshift before a turn and being in the right gear comming out of a turn makes all the difference in the world.
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Old 01-28-2004, 02:41 PM   #23
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Here's the deal:

1.) Stock situation (assuming both cars are otherwise identical)

- manual has less coefficient of mechanical drag
- auto car tends to be about 100lbs heavier
- you can shift faster in a manual than an identical car in automatic, because factory automatic shift programs are all very soft
- even though sometimes autos have a higher final drive ratio, it is used due to the extra weight the car has to carry, as well as the imprecise (relative to a manual tranny) dynamics of a torque converter
- all the above holds true ONLY WHEN the driver w/ the manual tranny drives correctly

2.) Modified

A modified automatic tranny will always shift faster, harder, and more predictably than a manual tranny, and plus, it has no margin of error. There are more frictional losses, but the lack of error due to mishifts more than makes up for that. Many high HP drag racers use automatics for this very reason.
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Old 01-28-2004, 03:22 PM   #24
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Read car magazines and look at the weight of the cars, manual is lighter, and the times are faster (ex. 0-60: 5.3sec, manual...5.5 sec auto)

Yes it is only 2 tenths of a second, but it is still faster.

Besides, manuals are more fun, you can't control a drift very easily with auto can you? Although a buddy drifts his mom's GS300 pretty well...
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Old 01-28-2004, 03:35 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by SickFinga



Cause i see them shift up. [/b]
Maybe 2 speed ?
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Old 01-28-2004, 03:48 PM   #26
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doesnt auto take more power away so less power to the ground? stockl 95 M3 auto puts 177 to the wheels, stock 95 5spd puts 199....i saw it on the dynos from AA website..
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Old 01-28-2004, 04:30 PM   #27
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auto differentials are geared different than manuals so it depends on the car.
and #2 IT TAKES POWER FROM THE ENGINE TO MAKE AN AUTOMATIC SHIFT. YOU DON'T GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING!
MANUAL IS THE TRUE FEELING OF CAR. DON'T BE LAZY
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Old 01-28-2004, 06:34 PM   #28
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in my manual from bmw the exact same cars (one auto and one stick), the manaul was 1 second fastre than the auto 1.4 mile ...according to BMW
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Old 01-28-2004, 07:10 PM   #29
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No factory-produced car is faster with an automatic. The most extreme car built with both trannys would be the 911TT, and it is significantly faster with the standard gearbox.

I have read, repeatedly, that the reason auto's are used in drag applications is more for consistency than any other reason. It takes the human error factor out, and allows the designers one less variable in the way of tuning.

The bullshit stops here.
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Old 01-28-2004, 08:50 PM   #30
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detune

sometimes car designers have to "detune" the engines on auto trannies to make the car's emissions pass. on the new rx-8s, the designers had to "detune" the engine 40 hp to pass emissions...
so yay for manuals......along with the fact manuals are more fun to drive.
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