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Old 01-28-2004, 04:05 AM   #1
koncise
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Auto vs. Manual

I got into this big discussion with a friend who claims that an auto would beat a manual in the 1/4 mile? assuming both cars are equally powered... what do u all think?

funny thing is, i drive auto, he drives manual.

but anyway... input please
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Old 01-28-2004, 04:06 AM   #2
anc325
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you will loose every time....

manual is faster
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Old 01-28-2004, 04:10 AM   #3
SickFinga
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No way in 1/4 mile.
but i think auto is usually geared better for highspeed runs
like 150km/h+ runs. I dunno really
but no way auto is faster.
With manual you can launch you car at the certain RPMs where you car got most torque. You cant do this with auto.
But then again, new blown benz's got their peak torque at ~2000 RPMs, you can reach it with brakestand.
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Old 01-28-2004, 04:15 AM   #4
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thanks for the replies

just to be clear.. lets assume its the EXACT same 2 cars, and both are completely STOCK. And they also got the best launches they're capable of
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Old 01-28-2004, 04:20 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by koncise
thanks for the replies

just to be clear.. lets assume its the EXACT same 2 cars, and both are completely STOCK. And they also got the best launches they're capable of
if they are EXACT same cars, they should be exactly the same

but if you mean both 325i but one is auto another is 5 spd stick.
5spd will win the race
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Old 01-28-2004, 04:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by SickFinga
if they are EXACT same cars, they should be exactly the same

but if you mean both 325i but one is auto another is 5 spd stick.
5spd will win the race
haha, jackass yea, i meant same except the tranny
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Old 01-28-2004, 04:52 AM   #7
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Let's clear up a few things here.

Not all cars are the same. To say that in every case a manual would win simply isn't true. If that was the case, then why aren't all pro-street dragsters manual? The truth is, almost all are auto.

Maybe in the BMW circles, the 5 speeds are faster. I'm not too familar with the trannys in your cars and how they work so excuse my ignorance.

In my case, I have a Thunderbird SC. It's an auto. The auto's run faster than the 5 speeds every time. Same goes for a friend with a Camaro Z28, the auto is superior on the track(better launches) but the 6 speed is lethal on the highway.

koncise, I've raced you before and I can tell by the way your car launches that the setup and how the car launches is very different from how a Ford or Chevy would. It goes to show that in the case of the BMW's, the manuals may be superior, but in many other cases, the auto's take the cake.
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Old 01-28-2004, 05:01 AM   #8
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manuals are quicker than auto's in my experience for two reasons.

1) manuals can be shifted faster than auto's
2) manual cars are lighter than auto's
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Old 01-28-2004, 05:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by 85eta
manuals are quicker than auto's in my experience for two reasons.

1) manuals can be shifted faster than auto's
2) manual cars are lighter than auto's
No offence, but your experience must be limited.

A human cannot shift faster or more accurate than a computer. Maybe a stock auto isn't as quick as some people can shift manuals, but if you put a shift kit into a auto, the shifts are harder, more crisp and consistant.

Why would a manual be lighter than an auto?
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Old 01-28-2004, 05:11 AM   #10
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isnt it also that more power actually gets to the wheels through a standard tranny than through an auto?
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Old 01-28-2004, 05:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by SCNISTER
No offence, but your experience must be limited.

A human cannot shift faster or more accurate than a computer. Maybe a stock auto isn't as quick as some people can shift manuals, but if you put a shift kit into a auto, the shifts are harder, more crisp and consistant.

Why would a manual be lighter than an auto?
Actually, 90% of the automatic transmissions don't shift all that fast. Manual transmissions also soak up a lot less power then auto's (driveline losses).

I could probably shift faster then a lot of automatics, both up and down, you just have to know how to do it. Most automatics are setup to be pretty tame, the engineers don't want you to get whiplash when the tranny shifts.

Manual transmissions are faster. If they weren't you'd see all racers using slushboxes instead of manuals.

Even the clutch pedal-less paddle shifters of F1 and such have clutches (no torque converters) as to not weigh down the cars and suck power from the engine.

Get two identical cars for example, the 325i's previously mentioned (yes, one auto and one manual), dyno them, you'd think they'd have the same rwhp, but the manual always has more.
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Last edited by thinair; 01-28-2004 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 01-28-2004, 05:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by SebSter
isnt it also that more power actually gets to the wheels through a standard tranny than through an auto?
True, there's a slight loss in the torque converter.
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Old 01-28-2004, 05:16 AM   #13
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Hmm, this is a interesting thread. I can only drive auto but I never knew it could be faster than stick. More info!
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Old 01-28-2004, 05:39 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by thinair
Actually, 90% of the automatic transmissions don't shift all that fast. Manual transmissions also soak up a lot less power then auto's (driveline losses).

I could probably shift faster then a lot of automatics, both up and down, you just have to know how to do it. Most automatics are setup to be pretty tame, the engineers don't want you to get whiplash when the tranny shifts.

Manual transmissions are faster. If they weren't you'd see all racers using slushboxes instead of manuals.

Even the clutch pedal-less paddle shifters of F1 and such have clutches (no torque converters) as to not weigh down the cars and suck power from the engine.

Get two identical cars for example, the 325i's previously mentioned (yes, one auto and one manual), dyno them, you'd think they'd have the same rwhp, but the manual always has more.
Yea, most auto's are tame, but $275 and you have a shift kit that chirps through gears as good as you could manually.

If manual transmissions are faster, then why don't all race cars use them? The majority of drag cars are auto's. Auto's are better for the strip and manual is better for solo type road racing.

You cannot really say a manual is "faster" as it's not the tranny doing the work, it's the driver. It's all on the driver to make a strong shift.

In regards to the dyno numbers, the difference between auto and manual is minimal, +-5hp at best.

I've seen both sides of the table. I've owned a 5 speed, two in fact and a few auto's and well. I've driven both an auto with and without a shift kit. The auto with the shift kit is simply superior on the track.
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Old 01-28-2004, 05:56 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by SCNISTER
If manual transmissions are faster, then why don't all race cars use them? The majority of drag cars are auto's. Auto's are better for the strip and manual is better for solo type road racing.
Drag racing is a different story, especially when you're talking about high strung multi thousand horsepower engines. You'd need a huge multidisk clutch setup and and extremely strong left leg if you want to work that clutch.

Drag cars use them more for practicality then anything else. Who wants to replace their clutch everytime they hit the track? (On very high horsepower engines)
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Last edited by thinair; 01-28-2004 at 05:58 AM.
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