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Old 11-25-2003, 07:04 PM   #1
Skunk#1
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Question multi-throttle intake

has anyone seen or used one of these, i was thinking of getting one, but don't know if it will net the power i want. i am building a high output na motor. thanks for the help.
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Old 11-25-2003, 07:05 PM   #2
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man i am not thinking today sorry http://www.bmpdesign.com/bmw/parts/c...ngine_31.shtml
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Old 11-26-2003, 01:24 AM   #3
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Ask how much they want for it, that alone should make the decision for you. You'll see what I mean.
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Old 11-26-2003, 03:11 AM   #4
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Useless without boring out the intake ports. Without headwork, you will most likely loose power.

Bry
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Old 11-27-2003, 09:42 AM   #5
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I wonder whether this installation requires any chip tuning or another work? My friend has a used one and does not intend to install it on to his car. He thinks there may occur idle problems etc...
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Old 11-27-2003, 03:26 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by miafori
I wonder whether this installation requires any chip tuning or another work? My friend has a used one and does not intend to install it on to his car. He thinks there may occur idle problems etc...
It will definitely require a custom dyno tuned computer chip. It takes extensive knowledge to play around with multi-throttle intake manifolds, it's not a bolt on mod at all.

You will also have a rougher idle, significant loss in low end toruqe and really peaky power bands. 5-6K before any noticeable power comes in. If your driving habbits on the road is constantly driving between 5-6K RPM, then maybe this mod is for you. Otherwise your car will be magically transformed into the torqueless wonder. This is a "race car" modification, so unless you are a tuner of some sort, I'd leave it alone. Keep in mind this is also if you've done all the required headwork and custom chip dyno tuning properly. Think upwards of $8000 of modifications.

And did anyone notice the price? $6000CDN? For that I could get a turbo/supercharger and more.

Bry
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Last edited by Autotechnica; 11-27-2003 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 12-01-2003, 08:29 PM   #7
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thats what i was thinking (turbo/supercharger), i am a mechanic and it didnt seem to be that complicated to do it. i just didnt think that the performance was all that. just a thought, i guess ill just turbo it. i can do that for half the cost of that thing.
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Old 12-02-2003, 07:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by miafori
My friend has a used one and does not intend to install it on to his car. He thinks there may occur idle problems etc...
he's right, it will, and he should give it to me immediately. *g*
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Old 12-05-2003, 08:27 PM   #9
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Ahhh, are you guys lost?
Have you never been in or heard of
a. E34 M5
b. 94 M3
c. E46 M3
d. S14

C'mon if you don't know what you're talking about then don't post up an ill informed reply.
Tuned properly this is the second best NA upgrade one can make.
Ohhh the throttle response........

It won't be the easiest upgrade, it will require tuning and thought but it will also be the best upgrade you've ever done.

BTW- Head work is not needed to make this work. It'll help, but it is by no means required.
Custom software most definetly is though.

Bill
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Old 12-05-2003, 08:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by 97 Z3 2.8
Ahhh, are you guys lost?
Have you never been in or heard of
a. E34 M5
b. 94 M3
c. E46 M3
d. S14

C'mon if you don't know what you're talking about then don't post up an ill informed reply.
Tuned properly this is the second best NA upgrade one can make.
Ohhh the throttle response........

It won't be the easiest upgrade, it will require tuning and thought but it will also be the best upgrade you've ever done.

BTW- Head work is not needed to make this work. It'll help, but it is by no means required.
Custom software most definetly is though.

Bill
Ok, I think your the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. First off, do you realize that the air restriction is actually not in the intake manifold but in the intake ports? Without doing headwork your just wasting your money. The intake manifold from the factory was designed specifically to match the intake ports. Second, you need to find a way to flow more air into the engine, if you can't do that, I don't see the point of upgrading the manifold, and no, adding a larger filter doesn't help. This can be accompllished by eg. headwork, cams, etc. The first thing you should ask yourself before considering this modification, is the air flow in my engine the restriction?

The M3 Euro spec, M5, M6, etc with the multi-throttle intake's were designed to work with the manifolds. Like I said before, a multi-throttle intake manifold is not a bolt-on mod. But if you think it's as simple as slapping one into your car and adding a chip, go ahead and try. I think you'll be disappionted by the results.

Even if it does make the car faster without headwork (in a straight line) there's something called driveability, and if that means having to shift at 5000RPM+ on the city streets just to get power, then I don't see how that's considered an improvement. In turn your car would be slower, that's why I said "race car" modification.

Bryan
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Last edited by Autotechnica; 12-05-2003 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 12-05-2003, 09:10 PM   #11
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You're right, I must be wrong...
It's not like I've built heads before.
Hmmm interesting how M50 manifold makes power.... I wonder why.

Dude, don't flame me- I know my stuff.

Truth be told factory BMW parts are pretty good all around, but if you break into an Evo II engine and you can see the difference. You're right in that respect. As far as the multi TB idea being a waste you're off base. Like I said- porting will help it- no doubt, but it will still work without porting. When I talk about computer tuning, I'm not talking about slapping a chip on there. I mean proper custom tuning by a professional.

If you're going to post- post knowledgeable infomation.
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Old 12-05-2003, 09:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by 97 Z3 2.8
You're right, I must be wrong...
It's not like I've built heads before.
Hmmm interesting how M50 manifold makes power.... I wonder why.

Dude, don't flame me- I know my stuff.

Truth be told factory BMW parts are pretty good all around, but if you break into an Evo II engine and you can see the difference. You're right in that respect. As far as the multi TB idea being a waste you're off base. Like I said- porting will help it- no doubt, but it will still work without porting. When I talk about computer tuning, I'm not talking about slapping a chip on there. I mean proper custom tuning by a professional.

If you're going to post- post knowledgeable infomation.
I just did, you still didn't explain to me why I should be adding a multi-throttle intake manifold if my engine's restriction isn't airflow. And how are you going to flow more air into your engine without headwork, with the use of just a custom tuned chip? Explain to me how a custom tuned chip will flow more air into the heads.

I only said the mti manifold is a waste if you don't do headwork. I realize that having individual throttle bodies is more effiicient, but does that justify spending $6000?

There's still the issue of the intake ports...

Don't flame you? You asked to be flammed. If your going to make such statements, at least back up your answers with facts.

I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong, but if your going to prove me wrong at least give me more than "Dude, don't flame me- I know my stuff". At least explain since we're not all as knowledgeable as you.

Bry
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Last edited by Autotechnica; 12-05-2003 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 12-05-2003, 11:01 PM   #13
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Ok, I'm just going to repeat what I've heard from others.

'I've heard' that these manifolds do increase horsepower, but only the extreme high end, the rest of the powerband suffers. And there is a drop in torque all across the band.

That said, I have no first hand experience with this intake manifold. Just what I've read on other forums over the last few years.
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Old 12-08-2003, 05:29 PM   #14
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Guy's, Bill is right... there ARE multi-throttle body kits out there, Bekkers sells them for the M50 (just to name one of the top of my head).

The main advantage of this system is THROTTLE RESPONSE and improved airflow especially at the top end where the current intake IS restrictive. Yes you will suffer torque and hp in the low end IF you don't tune it properly... That's the same as slapping on an M50 intake on a M52 block (either 2.8 or 3.2). Without tunning you will loose power!!! Oh yeah and why do you think the top end is so linear on the S52 and the S54 compared to the US/North American equivilants?

This is a good and solid performance improvement especially for track cars. Don't get me started on solid lifters

T.
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Old 12-08-2003, 08:53 PM   #15
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Thanks Tom.

Bry,
The manifold holds a larger air restriction and any other single stock part. Headwork will surely help, but free-ing up the major restriction will help you to reap the most benifits. The trick is to upgrade everything from CAI, MAF, TB, - ASC unit, manifold, injectors, Cams, headers, and then you will need headwork to make it really flow. The stock ports are a pretty good design from the factory, although not what the S14, S50B32 ports are. Remember though, these are all hand built engines, where our's are not.

Sorry to get a little "testy on you earlier. You're right, I should've given a little more detail.


Bill
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