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Old 11-14-2003, 09:38 PM   #61
Rolled_Out
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Believe me, the STi driver CAN drive, hes like 24 and he knows how to drive that car...
M3 wins and thats that.
Chris abusing his m3 has nothing to do w/ him winning..
If you were there to witness it, then you can talk, but you were not! M3 is a faster car no doubt... not by much, but its still faster.
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Old 11-15-2003, 12:03 AM   #62
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u suck danny...Chris abusing the car has no effect? dude, proper launching INVOLVES properly abusing the car, for shits sakes u should know all about auto abuse!! lol

Sti driver coulda set the diff to mostly rear causing him to spin..age has nothin to do with skill...a guy whos 19 driving for 2yrs can have the same experience as a 30yr old driving for 2yrs..knaw mean mo****a?
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Old 11-15-2003, 12:14 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by E46_lover
[b]every STI tested his low 13s to 13flat..you know u havent witnessed an M3 hitting 13flat other than that one on the internet!
With three runs at the same place and time, evens out all the factors that can effect a race, other than driver. Runs like that are the best way to determine which car is quicker.

Jon, you know what I think about magazine numbers.
Just cuz a mag's got that car running 13 flat, doesn't mean jack.. Dan would likely agree with me that those STI's are with a good driver at best a mid 13 sec car stock.
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Old 11-15-2003, 02:50 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by E46_lover
dude, proper launching INVOLVES properly abusing the car
I disagree.
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Old 11-15-2003, 04:15 AM   #65
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well..tlaselva showed me a proper launch..and if u dont think really burning ur clutch is car abuse then...well, i feel bad for ur car!
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Old 11-15-2003, 05:59 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by E46_lover
well..tlaselva showed me a proper launch..and if u dont think really burning ur clutch is car abuse then...well, i feel bad for ur car!
Jon's right.
To get a proper launch, you need to keep your revs where you have your maximum torque, and use the clutch to modulate the power to the wheels until your road speed catches up to the revs, and getting to this point with minimal wheel spin. This way, you always have enough torque to maximize your acceleration through your launch.

In a car like mine, a V8 has enough torque to break the tires loose at any rpm, so it's not as critical to keep the revs up.
But in a FI'd car, especially a 4 banger, below boost, there just isn't enough torque to maximize your acceleration (turbo lag) so it's critical to keep your rev's in the boost range, so you have plenty of torque to maximize your acceleration, especially at launch.

Even then, the few 2.0's I've done at Cayuga were done with the high revs, and lots of clutch modulation.

This procedure though is BRUTAL on your clutch.
Use this procedure often, and at minimum your going to replace your clutch plate often. At worst, you’re going to blow your tranny to smithereens, especially in a car that isn't designed for hard driving.
Keep in mind that dealerships can tell when a clutch has been abused like this, so should something go wrong, be prepared that when you take your car in expecting the tranny be repaird under warranty, the dealership may give you a .
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Last edited by tlaselva; 11-15-2003 at 06:08 AM.
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Old 11-15-2003, 04:31 PM   #67
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Jon, put it this way, the guys been driving stick since he was 17, so hes not a newbie manual driver, hes had his type R for a few years, and another car, as well as the STi, he knows what hes doing. bottom line, STi is NOT faster than the M3, if anything you can give it EQUAL, and thats still giving the STi too much, its a TAD slower, .1, or .2 of a second and thats that.
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Old 11-15-2003, 07:59 PM   #68
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that's what i though,

thanx rolled out, for the great info.

i hope my friend x ray can once and for all, get the fact that sti is a fast car but not as fast as the e46 m3.
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Old 11-16-2003, 04:22 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rolled_Out
Jon, put it this way, the guys been driving stick since he was 17, so hes not a newbie manual driver, hes had his type R for a few years, and another car, as well as the STi, he knows what hes doing. bottom line, STi is NOT faster than the M3, if anything you can give it EQUAL, and thats still giving the STi too much, its a TAD slower, .1, or .2 of a second and thats that.
Not that I'm doubting what your observations are, but I'm suprised that the E46 M3 is a bit quicker.
The STi is about 200 lbs. lighter, and is rated at about 30 lbs. torque more than the M3. Would have thought that that would have been enough to overcome the 33 HP it's conceeding to the M3.
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Old 11-16-2003, 04:28 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by tlaselva
Not that I'm doubting what your observations are, but I'm suprised that the E46 M3 is a bit quicker.
The STi is about 200 lbs. lighter, and is rated at about 30 lbs. torque more than the M3. Would have thought that that would have been enough to overcome the 33 HP it's conceeding to the M3.
Tony, from all your posts i understand that you judge performance of the cars only by power to weight ratio.
You should know better that there is more to it.
gearing, drivetrain power loss, aerodynamics.

So I would say STI loses to m3 cause it puts out less hp and torque to the wheels than m3 cause of all wheel drive.
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Old 11-16-2003, 04:41 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by SickFinga
Tony, from all your posts i understand that you judge performance of the cars only by power to weight ratio.
You should know better that there is more to it.
gearing, drivetrain power loss, aerodynamics.]
You’re right that there's more to it than just HP/weight ratio.
But you'd be surprised how accurate it can be.
If you remember the Elise thread EMPOWERED started several weeks ago, I posted some HP/Weight ratios of some popular cars. If you look at them, you will find that that list is very accurate in it's order in these cars quarter mile performance.
Actually looking back at it, I noted that the E46 M3 did have a slight advantage in the HP/Weight ratio, which was supported by a credible account of a stock race between the two, EVEN with the Subaru's 4WD advantage.

Quote:
So I would say STI loses to m3 cause it puts out less hp and torque to the wheels than m3 cause of all wheel drive.
If I'm not mistaken, the STi is rated at 300 ft. lbs. torque, to the M3's 270. I'm not sure if the Subaru looses an extra 30 lbs. torque because of the 4WD. Actually, it's better 60 ft. times because of the extra grip at launch should be good for .3 on the quarter, but ironically, it really doesn't seem to manifest itself.
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Last edited by tlaselva; 11-16-2003 at 04:52 AM.
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Old 11-16-2003, 04:59 AM   #72
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Old 11-16-2003, 06:26 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by tlaselva



If Actually, it's better 60 ft. times because of the extra grip at launch should be good for .3 on the quarter, but ironically, it really doesn't seem to manifest itself.
Like i said, by the end of first gear the STi pulled on the M by a tad, but as soon 2nd gear hit the M caught it and slowly gained more and more..
Could be that the STi should have had it by maybe a car already @ the end of first (but it was only half a car). Maybe he does need some practice launching the STi, i don't really know, but he seemed to have a good launch..
There both great cars and for the $ i'd almost have to go for the STi, but for anything else, i love my M cars and wouldn't let anything else get in the way of buying one like the STi. How important is speed anyways? I wanna be alive tomorrow
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Old 11-16-2003, 07:39 AM   #74
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With an exhaust and header, the Sti can do 12.8 sec in the 1/4 mile.

The M3 is fast, but with say $5000 spent on each car, the Sti would eat the M3 in every aspect.
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Old 11-16-2003, 07:50 AM   #75
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For some reason, I still feel the Sti would outrun the M3 in the 1/4.
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