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Old 10-16-2003, 09:46 PM   #31
E30 Stu
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Jazz-- We dyno our cars and send the air/fuel maps to AA and get custom chips.

97 Z3 2.8-- We do it all in-house.
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Old 10-16-2003, 11:07 PM   #32
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btw. for the header ... i took out the air pump and filled the hold.. yesterday hehe.. with out the custom hold i think the header is much easy to install and i feel took out the pump the hp and torpe go up.. and the car is feel lot better.. . yah chris really did a good job.. on both my M50 swap and Headers.. .. i feel regert, i should not made a hold for the airpump... now it look ugly with all the filled things.. hehe .. btw the header on EBAY rocks.
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Old 10-16-2003, 11:13 PM   #33
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Peter, which headers did you use? modifications did you need to do to the headers to install them?

Thanks..
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Old 10-16-2003, 11:34 PM   #34
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the header selling the Ebay now
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2437914001

dont need to install the downpipe......... actually dont need modifications. just took off the bottom part of the airpump.. and that is all.. Engine light wont on.. and car runs fine
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Old 10-16-2003, 11:36 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by JazzM
Yes, that's it, I just want 1-2 more hp....
thank you for your un necessary sarcasm...and thanks pat, for proving a false point..

i guess im not the idiot you thought i was JazzM (from the sarcasm post...)

Quote:
Originally posted by E30 Stu
Misinformation at its finest...

Pat--Head work yields 1-2hp with cams? No headwork can be done on an M50/S50 engine? Think again man. The M50/S50/M52/S52's we build get extensive headwork. We do heavy porting, valve reshaping, guide shaping, relief grinding, valve pocket work and 5-angle race valve job. Our 3.2L OBD-1 car puts 250 to the rear wheels on stock camshafts. Headwork does wonders if it is done correctly.
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Old 10-16-2003, 11:36 PM   #36
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also i am not sure if it will fit z3 or not.. since it is for e36
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Old 10-16-2003, 11:58 PM   #37
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after all the mod.. i dont have money for dyno now lol.. anyone want to sponsor me for a Dyno? :p
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Old 10-17-2003, 12:07 AM   #38
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well, 328 and 2.8 z3 have the same exhaust manifold stock (M52 engine block) so that should fit... Who makes these ones? I didn't see a brand on these... are they custom made?
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Old 10-17-2003, 12:31 AM   #39
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obx they claim
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Old 10-17-2003, 12:41 AM   #40
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I went to OBX website and they don't have a kit for bmw @ all

I'm confused...
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Old 10-17-2003, 12:44 AM   #41
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supersprint makes headers...
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Old 10-17-2003, 01:01 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by GR8 Ride

Jeez...where do you guys dream up this stuff????Pat


I dreamed this in realityville when I was thinking of turning a 328i into an M3/4. It turned out that it was far less expensive to trade and buy an M.

that being said I do understand the appeal of a custom, one of a kind ride. I just hate to see members pour huge dollars into a car and have it break down on them because they didn't consider a component downstream from the huge turbo. I'm not a BMW parts specialist but I do know that...

M power + stock brakes = trouble

just my opinion and should be considered as such




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Old 10-17-2003, 02:17 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by E30 Stu
Misinformation at its finest...

Pat--Head work yields 1-2hp with cams? No headwork can be done on an M50/S50 engine? Think again man. The M50/S50/M52/S52's we build get extensive headwork. We do heavy porting, valve reshaping, guide shaping, relief grinding, valve pocket work and 5-angle race valve job. Our 3.2L OBD-1 car puts 250 to the rear wheels on stock camshafts. Headwork does wonders if it is done correctly.
Well Stu, then your father can obviously teach something to Stickley, Glarner and every other engine builder in North America then.

Most guys around here (including Chuck) will say that there isn't a lot that can be done to the M50 (and family) head that nets more than a couple of rwhp, without spending HUGE $$$$. The money spent doesn't equal the HP gained.

Case in point. We have guys with 3.2L OBD-I conversions and some aggresive fuel maps putting out 245 rwhp WITH NO HEADWORK! Stock 3.2L cams, stock exhaust manifold etc.

How much low rpm torque is your head sacrificing anyway (which, for a race motor, I'll agree, isn't a big deal)? For a street motor though, you really can't give up the torque below 4000 RPM to make for big HP numbers up top.

I'd really need to see a dyno plot to believe any real numbers on your Dad's heads.


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Old 10-17-2003, 03:32 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by GR8 Ride
Well Stu, then your father can obviously teach something to Stickley, Glarner and every other engine builder in North America then.

Most guys around here (including Chuck) will say that there isn't a lot that can be done to the M50 (and family) head that nets more than a couple of rwhp, without spending HUGE $$$$. The money spent doesn't equal the HP gained.

Case in point. We have guys with 3.2L OBD-I conversions and some aggresive fuel maps putting out 245 rwhp WITH NO HEADWORK! Stock 3.2L cams, stock exhaust manifold etc.

How much low rpm torque is your head sacrificing anyway (which, for a race motor, I'll agree, isn't a big deal)? For a street motor though, you really can't give up the torque below 4000 RPM to make for big HP numbers up top.

I'd really need to see a dyno plot to believe any real numbers on your Dad's heads.


Pat
Hi Pat--

If there is a torque-loss with the headwork, we arn't seeing it. The best way I can describe the street S50's we build is with the word "explosive." An example of this motor would be a 3.0/3.2 with S50 valvetrain and stock cams, with raised compression, loose tolerances, a balance and blueprint, the headwork, etc.

I use the word 'explosive' because these motors pull at any RPM. 2500rpm and they are pulling hard. Part of this is thanks to BMW's great VANOS system. Like you said, you want power up top (over 4000) on a race motor, and between 2500 and 6000 on a street motor. These street motors pull extremely hard from 2500 to 6000, and even on to 6500-7000.

This is hard for me to explain, and I'm sure difficult for you to believe as I don't have any dyno sheets on my computer or a car right here in front of us to show you what I mean.

Keep in mind that on the '96--> head castings, the valve pockets are deeper and the heads flow much better than a pre-96 head. This was just a design change done by BMW.

Please give my dad a call, he can explain this much further in depth than I, and he can answer all of your questions on this stuff much better than I can. His phone number is (336) 761-0643, and his name is Pete.



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Old 10-17-2003, 01:16 PM   #45
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Stu,


See, in our case, it was a '97 donor motor, but it's also running stock internals. You're getting 250 rwhp with a bump in compression, which will certainly help with low end torque, and overall throttle response. You failed to mention THAT piece when talking about 250 rwhp with only headwork The 245 rwhp (on a dynojet, being perfectly honest) was on pump gas.

I don't doubt that you're getting some gains with the headwork, and with the head off the motor, you may as well port and polish the unit. But I don't think the gains are incredibly significant, especially given the money spent.

I've talked to your dad before, and I might give him a call again, and see what he has to say about it. Mostly what I'd be interested in are the Euro (3.0 and 3.2L motors), or the late 3.2L US spec motor; none of those have shown significant gains that we've seen.


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