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Old 10-13-2013, 10:36 AM   #16
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Someone claim the middle lane!
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:11 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by aviator View Post
The other thing to think about is your fuel economy... at 110kph you are right in the sweet spot for most vehicles... but push it to 120kph and your fuel usage goes way up for not much difference in arrival time.
While this is often the case, if people care about that, they can slow down and keep right. I don't care so much about that as I do arrival time, or enjoying a little more speed legally.

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With some of the crackhead drivers we have in the GTA - I dont know if raising the limit is a smart idea.
I don't think it'll matter. Stupid ppl are stupid. And I'd rather those drivers be targeted and punished than having the rest of us being brought down to adapt to them.

In my ideal world, it would be nice for the limits to go right up, and if the police no longer have speeding to use as a tax collection method, they now have to actually pull over left lane hogs, dangerous drivers, unsafe lane changers, etc. It would be something if police actually tried to keep roads safe.
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:17 PM   #18
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^Sounds like Europe would be the ideal place. Lol.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:28 AM   #19
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I'll agree it's fun now and then to really open these babies up and drive them like they were meant to be but that's what track days are for ...or road trips there are stretches of I-75 in Michigan LP that are 70-75mph just over the border from Sarnia...
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:38 AM   #20
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there are no 75mph zones in michigan anymore, 70 is only 112 km/h
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:11 AM   #21
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Yeah but 70 means you can usually get away with 80mph... did'nt know they'd taken away the 75mph areas.
I remember back in the 70's early 80's there were PSA commercials and billboards in the states that went something like... "Stay Alive - Drive 55"
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:38 AM   #22
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^Sounds like Europe would be the ideal place. Lol.
It is... I took delivery of a new car in Sept in Munich and hit the A roads, alpine passes, as well as the 'ring. I miss it.

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I'll agree it's fun now and then to really open these babies up and drive them like they were meant to be but that's what track days are for ...or road trips there are stretches of I-75 in Michigan LP that are 70-75mph just over the border from Sarnia...
No one is saying to make it unlimited. 130kph is hardly opening it up. The reason there is a big push for a speed limit increase is to reduce the rate of accidents and make it safer, and legal, to drive a comfortable speed on our well engineered, world class highways.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:41 PM   #23
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matt123494 posted this originally
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:18 PM   #24
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The problem is road engineering vs. speed limits. Almost all the roads are engineered for much higher speeds then limits posted. You end up feeling like the limit is very slow when you drive and this sensation comes from the fact that the road is indeed engineered for higher velocity. There are plenty of roads where the limit posted is pretty much what the road can handle up north, and in those places you feel like you are going at the right speed if not too fast. If roads were narrower, tighter corners, etc, then slower speed limits wouldn't feel so bad as they do now.
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:09 AM   #25
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IMO there were very good points made in JayM3SMG's orig. post. Driver training is also where I would place the focal point of this assessment, particularly in comparison to how different it is in some parts of Europe (e.g. Germany) as opposed to what we have in Ontario.

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Ever driven in Germany? We have better roads than their unlimited Autobahns
This I would have to disagree with though.

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Speeds do drop to 120-100 when near cities (busy onramps and offramps) so what would make sense is to put the 401 express at 130 and the collectors at 100. 130kph is fine near your average exit though.
This takes advantage of a critical benefit in terms of the landscape in Germany and how the Autobahns were engineered. I, for one, think engineering the Autobahns to connect major cities while not going through them (like our 400series highways often do) was a great engineering/urban planning idea. Major highways connect to others that circle the city itself. Covering the ground in between major cities/across the country you fly through open landscape.

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In Germany, you'll come off an offramp right into an unlimited zone.
Just out of curiosity, where did you mean or have in mind in terms of this type of situation? You mean that you exited an Autobahn into an area that had no speed limits?

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Driver education is a problem but that shouldn't punish all of us.
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We need better driver training.
Couldn't agree more. Couldn't reiterate the second point enough either.

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propr'one, while it might bother some, immigrants driving here without proper education is a problem, sorry to say. I live in Brampton and can tell you exactly why we have the worst insurance rates and a lot of accidents. It's quite a stunning place to drive. No one is saying 'all immigrants' as that's simply not true, but it is a significant issue which makes logical sense if you think about it. The big issue is driver education, people come from India or some other country, which is basically a lawless free for all when it comes to driving, come here and continue to drive like idiots. Then they open driving schools and you have bad drivers teaching poor driving habits. And since all you need to get a license in Ontario is to send in three cereal box tops, we have roads full of awful drivers. And that, poor drivers education and licenses issued like condoms at a dorm, is a problem that needs to be addressed. It's similar if I went to live in Germany, I wouldn't expect to get a German license without being able to pass their rigorous education and testing, that just doesn't make sense. It's WAY too easy to get a license in Canada, and the MTO has no one to blame for the accident rate but themselves.
Correct as well (IMO). I would go as far as to say that, to a lesser extreme, even the average Canadian contributes to this problem. I don't think we have ever had great licensing regulations and strict/commited driver training, so IMO even the average Canadian comes out of driver training a sub-par driver in comparison to say someone who comes out of the German system (albeit to a significantly lesser extent than the mean of the foreigner/immigrant driving population that comes from countries which have little to no structure in terms of traffic and driving regulations).

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I see accidents in Brampton all the time and it's never a speed issue. It's some moron running a stop sign, turning left in front of oncoming traffic, driving erratically, etc.
Yikes.


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I would rather see someone safely traveling 160kph than someone driving 50 looking at their phone or dealing with their brats in the back seat.
Agreed.

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It's also been shown, and anyone who has experience driving I am sure would agree, at slower speeds on the highway it is much easier to be complacent and get distracted. At higher speeds you are much more likely to pay attention and focus.
Can't say I've seen or read any of the studies on this, but that assessment sure feels accurate.

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Anyway the topic at hand is whether it would be safe to bump the limit to 130kph to meet a standard that exists in many other developed countries and I believe it would.
Me too. That's why I hope this voting/initiative actually gets off the ground and goes somewhere.

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No one is saying drop unlimited A roads all over (though what I wouldn't do to see that lovely black circle with 4 slashes through it again).
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:27 AM   #26
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Better driver education is the answer for the future. But how do we fix the bad drivers that are on the road now and will be for another 50+ years? New drivers will inevitably pick up on their bad habits. Only a few drivers take it seriously. The majority view driving as a chore or inconvenience
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:13 AM   #27
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Better driver education is the answer for the future. But how do we fix the bad drivers that are on the road now and will be for another 50+ years? New drivers will inevitably pick up on their bad habits. Only a few drivers take it seriously. The majority view driving as a chore or inconvenience
It may take a decade or so but mandatory driver re-training could help fix the poor drivers we have now but the problem is the schools themselves and the curriculum they teach. The whole course needs to be fixed first, then the instructors need to be retrained and the poor ones weeded out. Then you can start to bring in the existing drivers as their lic. expire to get "recertified".
Drivers with "professional" licences ie D,B,A etc. already get advanced training and could be exempted from the training portion and just be given a re-test. Drivers who attend advanced driving courses such as those offered by BMW/Porsche could also be re-tested only provided the course is not just a track {race} driving course.
I agree with the last 2 statements adding that a lot of folks also take it as a right not a privilege.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:57 AM   #28
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lets start an insurance company that incentives advanced driver training and never having any claims.
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:56 PM   #29
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Here is why increasing the limit wont work:

On the highway, traffic usually follows a flow speed. That flow speed is typically between 110 to 125 on most highways, edging to 130 on 401.

An increase to the speed limit, say to 130, will mean that people will still follow the flow of traffic, except now instead the traffic flow will be higher. I dont know how much higher but I think 140 to 150 would then be the norm on those stretches.

Now I dont know about you but I don't really have the confidence in other drivers to be going 140-150.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:06 PM   #30
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IMO there were very good points made in JayM3SMG's orig. post. Driver training is also where I would place the focal point of this assessment, particularly in comparison to how different it is in some parts of Europe (e.g. Germany) as opposed to what we have in Ontario.
Thanks

Quote:
This I would have to disagree with though.
Their autobahns have quite a bit more 'rough spots' than our highways do. I do NOT consider the GTA 401 a measure of a highway, BTW. That thing is like driving through a minefield and is maintained by idiots. The 401 outside Toronto, or the TCH in NB, Manitoba, etc. are pristine.

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Just out of curiosity, where did you mean or have in mind in terms of this type of situation? You mean that you exited an Autobahn into an area that had no speed limits?
No I mean I exited a town onto an unlimited A road. Similar to exiting, say, Hurontario onto an unlimited A road.
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