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Old 08-12-2013, 02:49 PM   #46
T.Dot_E30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
Driver =/= car

You can argue semantics all you want, but at the end of the day stock for stock the M5 is quite a bit faster than an M3. It's always been that way and probably always will be.
Some people can't seem to get this through their heads...

It doesn't matter what you think you raced on the street. Unless it's in a controlled environment (a track) with similarly skilled drivers. You raced the driver, not the car. (maybe he wasn't even racing you, but that's another story)

Either goto the drag strip or time attack and prove your worth, or don't bother talking about it online.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:00 PM   #47
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Not the one I raced!!!.and I did a google serach , they are closer too 4000lb.curb weigh ..wow .!! M5s are beutiful im not bashing them.
M3 - 3415lbs - 333hp - 262lb/ft
M5 - 4024lbs - 394hp - 368lb/ft


M3 - 10.26lbs per hp and 13.02lb per lb/ft
M5 - 10.21lbs per hp and 10.93lb per lb/ft

M3 drag coefficient - 0.33
M5 drag coefficient - 0.31


Simple math says, M5 is faster.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:07 PM   #48
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I've pulled on a fully built N/A E46 M3 (cams, headers, gears, intake, exhaust, software, you name it). It was SMG so that takes all driver variables out of the equation. That should say something...

Another thing people are forgetting to consider: the TQ curve. The S62 makes a ****tonne more torque than the S54 from low RPM onwards. That makes a massive difference in the real world than crunching only numbers online.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:32 PM   #49
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I've pulled on a fully built N/A E46 M3 (cams, headers, gears, intake, exhaust, software, you name it). It was SMG so that takes all driver variables out of the equation. That should say something...

Another thing people are forgetting to consider: the TQ curve. The S62 makes a ****tonne more torque than the S54 from low RPM onwards. That makes a massive difference in the real world than crunching only numbers online.
I don't think low-end torque matters much in this case. If you were to race in a straight line, with every shift E39 will be around 5000rpms and E46 will be at 6000, at this point M3 and M5 start losing torque.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:52 PM   #50
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High revers 8000 rpm.
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Old 08-12-2013, 04:21 PM   #51
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what kind of track times you churning out?
I wish I knew - I'm looking into a Harry's lap timer or something similar. At the last autoslalom I went to (Mosport DDT), I figured I'd be the slowest because this thing is so heavy compared to the other cars present. However, I was pleasantly suprised to finish mid pack and my best times were not measured due to technical problems. After this event, I stopped thinking about getting a lighter car. This thing has a lot of potential - I just gotta drive it better....

Here are the results - click on May 26 tab on the bottom - I'm number 6, line 15.... Hey, # 14 out of 50 timed cars (PAX corrected)... not bad.... I sorted it by best time and I fall to 19th position, which is the mid pack time I saw during the event. I got beat by two E46 M3!!! doh! But the M5 ruled over the Corolla.

Trillium Autoslalom


At Cayuga, I was running with comparable cars, except that they are all newer - SS Camaro, Mustang GT, Supersnake, SRT Charger. I really wasn't gaining on anyone for most of the session. As I started to figure out the car and as my driving improved, they started to wave me past. I have to admit, I was caught off guard because I didn't think I was faster than them! It felt pretty good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SickFinga View Post
I don't think low-end torque matters much in this case. If you were to race in a straight line, with every shift E39 will be around 5000rpms and E46 will be at 6000, at this point M3 and M5 start losing torque.
Peak HP and TQ only tell part of the story, what's really interesting is the "area under the curve". That provides a better indication over the rpm range. This will tell you if the motor pulls nice and strong from low RPM all the way to redline or if it's just going to be wheezy up until max rpm.

Last edited by windwagen; 08-12-2013 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 08-12-2013, 04:35 PM   #52
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My car has the same engine as an E46 M3.
It has modifications to make it more powerful than a stock E46 M3.
It has shorter gearing than a stock E46 M3.
It weighs ~300lbs less than a stock E46 M3.
I haven't lost a race to an NA E46 M3, ever.

Run after run, Anuk's M5 is faster than my car. There really isn't a discussion here.
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:30 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
My car has the same engine as an E46 M3.
It has modifications to make it more powerful than a stock E46 M3.
It has shorter gearing than a stock E46 M3.
It weighs ~300lbs less than a stock E46 M3.
I haven't lost a race to an NA E46 M3, ever.

Run after run, Anuk's M5 is faster than my car. There really isn't a discussion here.
Of course there isn't... Like I said in a previous post M5's will trap on a bad day 5 mph faster than an M3. A well broken in one and someone that knows how to drive will be even faster.

Unfortunately some people just can't seem to admit when they're wrong.
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:33 PM   #54
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M3's are awesome, but somehow the E39 M5 is sexier....
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:36 PM   #55
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You guys are still not getting it.

http://youtu.be/ZluAprKoPuo
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:43 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by windwagen View Post
Peak HP and TQ only tell part of the story, what's really interesting is the "area under the curve". That provides a better indication over the rpm range. This will tell you if the motor pulls nice and strong from low RPM all the way to redline or if it's just going to be wheezy up until max rpm.
Area under "unused" curve is irrelevant though. The torque you make under 4000rpm doesn't make any difference if you never see those RPMs when you are going all out.
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:02 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
My car has the same engine as an E46 M3.
It has modifications to make it more powerful than a stock E46 M3.
It has shorter gearing than a stock E46 M3.
It weighs ~300lbs less than a stock E46 M3.
I haven't lost a race to an NA E46 M3, ever.

Run after run, Anuk's M5 is faster than my car. There really isn't a discussion here.
If your car say weighs 3100lbs and a m5 say weighs 4000lbs that extra 60hp and 80extra tq dose NOT make up for 900 extra pounds. No way.!!
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:05 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by 2bmwguy View Post
If your car say weighs 3100lbs and a m5 say weighs 4000lbs that extra 60hp and 80extra tq dose NOT make up for 900 extra pounds. No way.!!
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:07 PM   #59
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You guys are still not getting it.

http://youtu.be/ZluAprKoPuo
Damn- what a waste of 1s and 0s!
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:09 PM   #60
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Oh well the verdict is in. E39 M5s are slower than M3s apparently.

I'm gonna trade mine in on a 1992 beige Corolla and stance it out. See you boys at RollaCruise 2013 at Mosport.
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