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Old 01-18-2014, 04:25 PM   #1
<3MyE36
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Another E36 Problem, Help :(

Hey guys, so my E36 has decided not start anymore, I've replaced the Mass airflow sensor, fuel filter, fuel pump, crankshaft position sensor, and the battery is new, it just cranks and cranks and cranks, last week I got it to start once but it died immediately also when I turn the car off and take the key out the I can still hear the fuel running for about five minutes, I've read else where to try (blow drying the fuel rail, try using gas line anti-freeze, unplug the yellow EWS DME harness or replacing the ICV/IAC) anyone know what the problem could be or could provide a suggestion on which approach would be the best to take? I appreciate the help, thanks.

-Rich

Last edited by <3MyE36; 01-18-2014 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 01-19-2014, 10:05 AM   #2
nikijack
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Just a thought. Is the car parked on an angle? Once this happened to me. There was 1/4 tank of fuel, but being parked on a hill sideways, the fuel would not pump.
Jack
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Old 01-19-2014, 11:22 AM   #3
BmW1819
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U check fuel pressure? As those rest of other thing wont cause a no start other than cranksensor.
Just because u hear pump doesnt mean presure and flow is good
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Old 01-19-2014, 12:55 PM   #4
BMW_TECH_24
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E36 no start

You need to have the issue diagnosed properly, there are numerous components on your car that could cause a no start and you need to narrow down what it is.
Have you checked for fuel pressure (not listened...actually checked?), have you confirmed the vehicle has spark? Without performing these simple checks you have no real world way of finding a solution or narrowing down which component requires replacing/repair. Are all the parts you purchased brand new (I have experienced OEM BMW parts being faulty from new, it happens) I am not trying to harp on you but don't be afraid to pay someone for there expertise and knowledge (dealership/BMW specialty shop). Everyone always says they can't afford the diagnostic time (but don't have issues paying to throw parts at the car in hopes it's the solution they are looking for) Or try to educate yourself if not interested in paying someone, there is a lot of useful information both here on Maxbimmer and the internet in general on what tests to perform and how to do them without fancy computerized diagnostic equipment. Hope this helps and best of luck with your car! Check Maxbimmer list of sponsors for a reputable shop in your area.
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:01 PM   #5
<3MyE36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikijack View Post
Just a thought. Is the car parked on an angle? Once this happened to me. There was 1/4 tank of fuel, but being parked on a hill sideways, the fuel would not pump.
Jack
My E36 is actually parked in my garage which is pretty level, and I have more than half a tank of gas left.

-Rich
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:03 PM   #6
<3MyE36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_TECH_24 View Post
You need to have the issue diagnosed properly, there are numerous components on your car that could cause a no start and you need to narrow down what it is.
Have you checked for fuel pressure (not listened...actually checked?), have you confirmed the vehicle has spark? Without performing these simple checks you have no real world way of finding a solution or narrowing down which component requires replacing/repair. Are all the parts you purchased brand new (I have experienced OEM BMW parts being faulty from new, it happens) I am not trying to harp on you but don't be afraid to pay someone for there expertise and knowledge (dealership/BMW specialty shop). Everyone always says they can't afford the diagnostic time (but don't have issues paying to throw parts at the car in hopes it's the solution they are looking for) Or try to educate yourself if not interested in paying someone, there is a lot of useful information both here on Maxbimmer and the internet in general on what tests to perform and how to do them without fancy computerized diagnostic equipment. Hope this helps and best of luck with your car! Check Maxbimmer list of sponsors for a reputable shop in your area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BmW1819 View Post
U check fuel pressure? As those rest of other thing wont cause a no start other than cranksensor.
Just because u hear pump doesnt mean presure and flow is good
I haven't checked the fuel pressure just yet, and replaced the spark plugs not too long ago, thanks for the advice though I'll update everyone when some progress is made.

-Rich
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:15 PM   #7
windwagen
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Careful... Gas gauges can lie.... After confirming furl and spark, check compression.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:24 AM   #8
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Replacing spark plugs does not mean you have good spark, that is like filling your gas tank and saying you have fuel pressure, the spark plugs are the last piece of an ignition system (not key ignition, but ignite fuel with spark ignition), between your spark plugs and engine computer (DME) there are plenty of components which can fail, the likeliness that all 6 plugs or all 6 coils failing at the same time is next to impossible, unless something that tells them to do their job (make spark) or controlling their function has failed. If you had a plug or coil issue the most likely scenario would be a misfire and probably a check engine light pertaining to that misfire.

Again you are looking to confirm fuel pressure at the fuel rail (fuel being delivered at the proper pressure) and looking to confirm all 6 cylinders have spark (spark plug tester is best as it simulates the plug being in a cylinder under compression)

Very unlikely that compression was lost across all 6 cylinders, rarely will compression be lost in more than one cylinder (catastrophic damage excluded, lol) and vehicle should still start with low compression however run with a misfire.

IMO compression checks are a good test, easily performed, cheap to do (most people have at least a friend with a gauge and simple to understand, that being said a leak down test is regarded as the most accurate test however the tool is much more expensive, you need to understand and position each cylinder in TDC and have a supply of compressed air to run the test

Again start with the fuel and spark, an engine will not run/start without the two

Good luck
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:40 PM   #9
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It is possible to lose compression in all cylinders - gulp - personal experience.

I installed a header on my Jeep. I finished at 11 pm and decided to test start it. I didn't let it run b/c it was an open header and I didn't want to bother the neighbors.

Next day, I couldn't start it again for the life of me. After a few days of messing around I gave up and got it towed to Sam's Garage. They got it running - no compression. Turns out, my mistake was not letting it run. The cold start enriched the mixture and although it started, shutting it down imediately left a lot of gas in the cylinders. Overnight, the gas washed the oil off the cylinder walls and allowed major leaks.....and no compression.

They said the crankcase was way overfilled ... with gas. I was basically repeating the process every time I attempted to start it. The changed the oil and squirted some oil into the combustion chambers and it started..... what a tough way to learn that!!!
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Old 01-24-2014, 08:34 AM   #10
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Turns out, my mistake was not letting it run. The cold start enriched the mixture and although it started, shutting it down imediately left a lot of gas in the cylinders. Overnight, the gas washed the oil off the cylinder walls and allowed major leaks.....and no compression.
That's a whole lot of horse doo-doo... If that's what they told you, you need to find a new mechanic.
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:08 PM   #11
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I wish it was doo doo ... believe me - I'd have to be really stumped before my car gets towed!!! I've actually heard of this phenomena from others.... afterwards of course.

Why don't you try it and see for yourself? With the current cold weather, it'll be extra rich!
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:20 AM   #12
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I wish it was doo doo ... believe me - I'd have to be really stumped before my car gets towed!!! I've actually heard of this phenomena from others.... afterwards of course.

Why don't you try it and see for yourself? With the current cold weather, it'll be extra rich!
I'm not going to believe it because I know it's not true, your compression doesn't magically go to 0 psi just because you get a little extra gas in your cylinders.

The piston rings are a MECHANICAL seal, while you will reduce your compression a little by washing down the walls and removing the oil it will never be low enough not to start.

Running overly rich for extended periods of time will damage the ring/wall seal but not from a simple start/stop situation.

Issues with the spark plug fouling? Sure that I can understand and makes perfect sense and would cause a no-start.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:04 AM   #13
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Hey man.... you can choose to not believe it, but do yourself a favour and keep this tidbit stored in your brain somewhere in the unlikely event that it happens to you. I dried the plugs and even installed a new set.... still no start.

I spent a lot of time pissing around with this. The shop figured it out and got it running so I don't see why they would mislead me. I'll ask them if they actually measured with a compression tester. They were pretty excited about the thing - besides breaking my balls over it - so it's prolly the first time they saw something like that. One of the comments was "you shoulda seen how full the crankcase was ...full of gas! You could smell it when we drained the oil"

Squirting oil into the spark plug hole restored compression.

I found this.... interesting read - see 3rd paragraph

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/...ee-horsepower/

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Old 02-25-2014, 10:16 AM   #14
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Hey man.... you can choose to not believe it, but do yourself a favour and keep this tidbit stored in your brain somewhere in the unlikely event that it happens to you. I dried the plugs and even installed a new set.... still no start.

I spent a lot of time pissing around with this. The shop figured it out and got it running so I don't see why they would mislead me. I'll ask them if they actually measured with a compression tester. They were pretty excited about the thing - besides breaking my balls over it - so it's prolly the first time they saw something like that. One of the comments was "you shoulda seen how full the crankcase was ...full of gas! You could smell it when we drained the oil"

Squirting oil into the spark plug hole restored compression.

I found this.... interesting read - see 3rd paragraph

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/...ee-horsepower/
I'm fully aware of how piston rings seal and that article only backs what I already know.

In no way would you loose all compression by slightly over fueling a cylinder, I would have agreed with you if you said you were running 10:1 AFR all the time for quite a while. But you're claiming that starting the car and then stopping the car right away caused this.

Otherwise you would see all kinds of people with broken cars everywhere when it's cold. In your situation you had another underlying problem and maybe you had low compression to begin with due to over fueling, it's all just speculation on my part about what actually caused your actual failure.

But it's no speculation that you wouldn't loose 100% compression due to some fuel washing down the walls if the motor was healthy before that starting attempt. It just won't happen.

FYI, this is what no compression on all cylinders sounds like (which will never happen by just having some fuel wash down the walls):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWnMxJp97-o
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:11 AM   #15
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This is the thing - if it was ZERO compression, I hope that I would have noticed the lack of load on the starter. So let's say it was "down" on compression.

The night I completed the job, I didn't "start" it per se.... I cranked it over and it fired up. I shut it down immediately because it was late and this thing was an ope header. So it prolly turned about 20 revolutions in total. Then I let it sit which was my mistake.

Whatever rich cold start mixture that made it into the cylinders sat there all night. I don't think this was enough to wash the oil away, but it was enough to cause a flooded condition. Next morning when I tried to start it again, it was already flooded and it just got worse and worse.

This all happened in the winter too, so I'm sure that just made the mixture even more rich.

My wife has flooded her Odyssey this way. She started it up (cold) and realized she's forgotten something and shut it down. I told her to hold the gas pedal down while starting to clear the flood and it worked. So even she knows not to shut down a fuel injection car right away.
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