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Old 08-03-2013, 07:47 AM   #46
Blackedout95
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Originally Posted by Adhamhnon View Post
Actually if you knew anything about police training... he was an immediate threat. If a threatening individual is holding a knife within 21 feet of an officer or innocent bystander, he is considered an imminent threat, because a person can do serious harm to someone inside that distance within 2.5 seconds. It is quite clear on the video that the officer stated "If you take one step towards me ...(unclear)... you die." The suspect then quite clearly in the video made that move. (He went from clearly visible in the window to obstructed by the body towards the stairs.) The officer then fired three shots. The other shots after the pause are cause for concern, and need to be investigated, but from what I saw in the video, the first three shots were not unjustified.

Imagine you're the officer, have a guy holding a knife screaming profanities and insults at you, and refuses to drop the knife after being ordered to numerous times. He is within the 21 ft radius, and you know from your training he can be on you or a fellow officer in less than 3 seconds. Then he begins to make that move... you have to make a decision NOW. Are you willing to take the chance that he's not going to bury that knife in your neck? It's easy to sit behind your computer and judge when you have plenty of time to think and formulate what you think should have been done, it's an entirely different matter when all you have are those 3 seconds.
Correct, before you can even think to react a person can advance so all the officer had to feel was he was advancing in the least.

Some here would have you count 3 steps, I hear in Russia they only give 2.5 steps and in UAE 1.5 steps before pulling out a stick of wood to disarm you lol
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:34 AM   #47
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If he's so close that the officers concerned, increase the perimeter .. Plenty of officers on hand to widen it a bit
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:03 PM   #48
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If he's so close that the officers concerned, increase the perimeter .. Plenty of officers on hand to widen it a bit
I understand the thinking but why should they have to, no hostage.
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:23 PM   #49
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To avoid exactly what happened.. The arguments are that the officer felt threatened when to the suspect took 2-3 steps forward.. Again he was already where he was when he was shot.. Just prior he took a few steps away and then walked forward back to about the same spot when he was shot .. If this distance was without threashold to use lethal force then the the officers can widen that distance.. This factor is in their control as the suspect is in a street car with limited options as to where to move
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Old 08-03-2013, 03:18 PM   #50
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As can be seen in the video, he didn't just walk forward to where he was... he made a quicker move in that direction right after he was warned not to.

I just don't understand the apologist thinking and deference people seem to think the police should have given to an armed thug. No wonder our society is sliding down the proverbial toilet.
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:41 PM   #51
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To avoid exactly what happened.. The arguments are that the officer felt threatened when to the suspect took 2-3 steps forward.. Again he was already where he was when he was shot.. Just prior he took a few steps away and then walked forward back to about the same spot when he was shot .. If this distance was without threashold to use lethal force then the the officers can widen that distance.. This factor is in their control as the suspect is in a street car with limited options as to where to move
So...because he makes threats the cops back off and give him space? **** that, he chose to adopt the risk associated with holding a knife aggressively in a standoff with police. The cops job are to contain this, moving back and letting this moron control the situation is exactly what you wouldn't want happening.

As for his positioning, he was moving forward...period, end of story. He motioned towards them just after being told not to, little ****er deserved to be shot. It's the follow up shots that need to be examined and justified.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:42 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Adhamhnon View Post
As can be seen in the video, he didn't just walk forward to where he was... he made a quicker move in that direction right after he was warned not to.

I just don't understand the apologist thinking and deference people seem to think the police should have given to an armed thug. No wonder our society is sliding down the proverbial toilet.
Have you seen the million police brutality videos on this forum and on youtube? You would understand easier us 'apologetic' people if you understand this is not surprising for police to be the bad guys. They have a precedent.

And yes we live in a police state. Not in the sense where you say something bad here and police show up and smash your bmw, but in the sense that when police interests come into conflict with anyone else's, the police win and get away with it. think of g20.

us 99% need to shoot the sheriff, too many bad deputys
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:26 PM   #53
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Have you seen the million police brutality videos on this forum and on youtube? You would understand easier us 'apologetic' people if you understand this is not surprising for police to be the bad guys. They have a precedent.

And yes we live in a police state. Not in the sense where you say something bad here and police show up and smash your bmw, but in the sense that when police interests come into conflict with anyone else's, the police win and get away with it. think of g20.

us 99% need to shoot the sheriff, too many bad deputys

I know I've seen a metric shit ton of assholes in bmw's, that doesn't make the majority of bmw owners assholes. For every police brutality video on the web, there are thousands of un-video'd cases of police officers saving lives, risking their own for others, helping people, and just generally trying to keep the public safe. What I do understand is that every time an officer does do something bad, the media is all over it, and some people use that as an excuse to justify their belief that the police are the "bad guys"

Once again I also assert that if you really believe this is a police state, you don't grasp what a "police state" really is. The G20 is a horrible example I'll barely get into, since I'd personally love to take a baton to some of those black flag anarchist morons who don't even have a simple understanding of economics and what they're protesting, and think that destroying private and public property is a legitimate form of protest.
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Old 08-04-2013, 12:36 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Adhamhnon View Post
I know I've seen a metric shit ton of assholes in bmw's, that doesn't make the majority of bmw owners assholes. For every police brutality video on the web, there are thousands of un-video'd cases of police officers saving lives, risking their own for others, helping people, and just generally trying to keep the public safe. What I do understand is that every time an officer does do something bad, the media is all over it, and some people use that as an excuse to justify their belief that the police are the "bad guys"

Once again I also assert that if you really believe this is a police state, you don't grasp what a "police state" really is. The G20 is a horrible example I'll barely get into, since I'd personally love to take a baton to some of those black flag anarchist morons who don't even have a simple understanding of economics and what they're protesting, and think that destroying private and public property is a legitimate form of protest.
Hey man, I think you know a lot more about bmws than I do...and I really like the e60 535i you have. But like cars and this stuff is really different. If you tell me that doing something on a e60 is going to be like this or like that I would believe you. But like this stuff here...its something both of us probably have like no direct experience in understanding.

John Doe says the police are bad. tally 1 for that side. Bob Doe says police are good. tally 1 for that side. This kind of stuff is meaningless in the discussion of this stuff of what we are trying to have.

You say that for everyone of those bad police vids there are a thousand good ones. At least show me some sources, something more than just your 'understanding' or 'knowledge'....let me see for myself in other words
- but to the original point I was making....when the police ARE BAD....what happens? they get away with it. your argument that the bad police getting away with it doesn't matter because most are good cops is....well......well.....well how does it sound like?

Someone who puts that uniform on should be of a higher moral quality then what we have today. That uniform represents the state, our constitution. When justice is served out to the victims of police brutality, it is the tax payer who pays for the crimes of the bad police.

G20 is not just the 20-30 idiot black flag anarchists. Also what do you think their misunderstanding of simple economics is? what is your understanding?

Hey I bet you have some cool tools that make it easier working on your car,
my tool for analyzing really any media source.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model

Bob Marley would be one of the G20 protestors. I argue it. Maybe you'll understand after reading his songs?



I am a student of the social sciences and forever will be until I die, who are you. what do you do. why do you think your voice should be considered. These are questions I ask myself every time I reach out beyond my social group and decide to voice something of this nature. What do you ask yourself before you voice?

And I just wanna say that your really Babo and a byoungshin...to borrow a few Korean words that capture the meaning better than english.

But really what this is serem ti u usta. So lets agree to disagree, but at the end of the day I hope your listening to Bob Marley, I am.
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Old 08-04-2013, 01:07 AM   #55
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To answer a few of your points:

1) I'm not saying that bad officers shouldn't be punished, I'm saying that the majority of officers are not bad. You can see examples of this in your community everyday. Going to schools to educate about drugs, setting up RIDE checkpoints to stop drunk drivers, investigating crimes that happen to everyday people, comforting people who have been victims of crimes... this is the majority of police officers.

2) While you are a student of social sciences, I study economics. I understand how capital markets work, how the economic systems we have in place function and in what conditions they thrive, and when they fail. I understand what keeps an economy growing, and how it can be undermined. While there are some bad operators who do harm, (and not just people, the economic structure itself), the system itself is not evil as some proclaim.

I'll ignore the korean translations, as I'm not one to descend into personal insults when trying to make my point. As to Marley, not a fan of reggae.
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Old 08-04-2013, 06:49 PM   #56
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Please tell me it was a Bowie knife and not some Canadian Tire 2.5 inch pocket knife.
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:24 PM   #57
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reading some of these comments really 'boggles my mind'

21 foot rule doesn't apply When the guns are already out, as it takes half a second to pull a trigger.

Also We can Cleary see (in at least 2 seperate vids of it) the knife weilding scum bag didn't even come down the steps when he was shot, the 1st 3x's out of 9.

and it is really weird/improper that the cop waits 3-4 seconds before pumping another 6 bullets into a body currently laying on the ground
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:09 AM   #58
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^ agree with this
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Old 08-10-2013, 08:01 AM   #59
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This is all over the place (obviously) and I've been trying to stay out of it but... I'm buzzed so what the hell. The thing that bugs me is, do any of you really feel like you and ten of your buddies couldn't have taken down a skinny 18yo trapped in a closed space with a tiny knife without anybody dying? Really? Even without flak jackets and years of training and a paid salary and the monopoly of force on your side for the aftermath? This really required 9 slugs and a tasered corpse?
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Old 08-10-2013, 08:37 AM   #60
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This is all over the place (obviously) and I've been trying to stay out of it but... I'm buzzed so what the hell. The thing that bugs me is, do any of you really feel like you and ten of your buddies couldn't have taken down a skinny 18yo trapped in a closed space with a tiny knife without anybody dying? Really? Even without flak jackets and years of training and a paid salary and the monopoly of force on your side for the aftermath? This really required 9 slugs and a tasered corpse?


Spot on really. This makes me think of 1930s in Germany.
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