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Old 05-09-2012, 06:28 PM   #46
sirex
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The biggest problem at the end of the day is that we folk are competing with people that literally have been living in tents in their own filth. I mean thats the competition. You are competing against people coming from India and China for jobs that live in a society of true scarcity.

The problem is we can't compete because we've had it to good. I like take my long ass breaks, and chilling and hanging out and drinking. You know any Indians or Chinese that do the same? These people are 100% work, down in the books and dirty. They are coming from poverty, so you bet they are going to come at your hard.

So how is it fair when they open up the flood gates to immigration for this shit? These people are willing to work in high paying engineering firms for $10 an hour. They just don't care because the life here is better than the shit hole they came from (for now at least).

Well, thats globilization in the end. The corporations win.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:23 PM   #47
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^ where is the source of the 60% living pay cheque to pay cheque? that's NUTTY!

just like how 80% of working canadians make under 100k/year.

i wonder how they compile these numbers? if they are indeed true how the F do people afford the houses in Toronto on these kind of wages?!?!? that's a lot of crazy debt. yet people are buying places in Toronto that boggles my mind. and not to mention all the nice cars driving around the city.
here:

Quote:
Six in 10 live pay to pay


The recession may be officially over, but six in 10 Canadians are still surviving from paycheque to paycheque, a national survey showed Monday.


Fifty-nine per cent of Canadian workers say they would be in financial trouble if their paycheque was delayed by just a week – the same proportion as last year when the economy was still mired in a downturn, according to a poll of 2,766 people by the Canadian Payroll Association.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...rticle1705096/
HST - anyone anyone?


now they have assholes on CTV saying:
Food tax: Adding GST to food will benefit the poor, economists say
http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149076
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:11 PM   #48
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that is so true about the Chinese and Indians working their butts off compared to us lazy butts in 1st world nations. I work/interact with people in these other countries and it's unreal their work ethics. We have TZ differences and guess what they will work to accomodate us! They've seen how the other half lives...ie. us in 1st world and they figure if they work hard they will be able to reach the same level and enjoy our excesses. many have left their home country as others have stated to work for far less pay and produce far more.

this is capitalism at it's best. competition weeds out the weak. and unfortunately we have become weak with all our excesses in NA.

And now that they are impacting our 'standard' of living we are bulking at them. well it's the reality of globalization.

as for the comments about not needing so many degree carrying people to do the work in Canada. I completely disagree. It goes back to pure lack of innovation. Why do these highly educated people need to work for a company? Again we have opportunity to create something from nothing. You lack startup funding...no problem thanks to Harper they have for years been throwing money around to startups to jump start any innovative business. Several of my friends have taken advantage of it and created a real business that now employs people.

those that earn degrees and do nothing with it or expect a 6 figure salary because they have student debt and DESERVE a job. Well I say watch out for the Chinese and Indian up and comers.

Like i tell my kids..finish your food or someone in China/India will eat it and also finish your homework cause they'll take your job too.

Asking the gov't to put up barriers to prevent this is globalization is no different than QC gov't imposing crazy language laws when the rest of the world operates primarily in English.

Those of are expecting the gov't to do something...I don't know what to say.

v...good discussion thus far. amazing no name calling yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
The biggest problem at the end of the day is that we folk are competing with people that literally have been living in tents in their own filth. I mean thats the competition. You are competing against people coming from India and China for jobs that live in a society of true scarcity.

The problem is we can't compete because we've had it to good. I like take my long ass breaks, and chilling and hanging out and drinking. You know any Indians or Chinese that do the same? These people are 100% work, down in the books and dirty. They are coming from poverty, so you bet they are going to come at your hard.

So how is it fair when they open up the flood gates to immigration for this shit? These people are willing to work in high paying engineering firms for $10 an hour. They just don't care because the life here is better than the shit hole they came from (for now at least).

Well, thats globilization in the end. The corporations win.
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:20 PM   #49
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Polls are not fact...and they didn't give a CI of the poll either.

I don't buy it. but if it's true...just shocking given the kind of bling out there. are people really using their CC/HELOC like printing presses? clearly I'm naive.

you would expect people to be doing quite well given the kind of clothing people wear and the cars they drive. and i'm not talking about foreigners either. i see the locals dressing to the nines and people spending money at bars/clubs like it's going out of style. restaurants are always packed too. just look at the kind of electronic gadgets people buy and the monthly fees to keep the phones going. costs more than water/electricity in some cases.

only real stats i'd believe would be from revenue canada. of course assuming people are reporting their full income. but it's the closest thing to reality aside from opening up ones bank account for an inspection.

just look at the BMW/audi/MB dealerships in GTA alone. they wouldn't all be expanding if people were not buying from them. all foreigners? perhaps?

maybe i need to spend time in the 'shawa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmdbley'sBro View Post
here:



HST - anyone anyone?


now they have assholes on CTV saying:
Food tax: Adding GST to food will benefit the poor, economists say
http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149076
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:40 PM   #50
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Polls are not fact...and they didn't give a CI of the poll either.

I don't buy it. but if it's true...just shocking given the kind of bling out there. are people really using their CC/HELOC like printing presses? clearly I'm naive.

It really depends where you look. If you go down town Toronto, it's pretty up there. Alot of young couples making good money, or at least alot of young couples, both pulling in 45K and spending alot of money.

To be fair, if a couple pulls in 90K together, they are living pretty comfortable. Their after tax income is probably around 70K. Subtract the condo $1500 a month mortgage, maintenance, utilities, and you still got 3K-4K a month left over. Not tight at all if you're smart with your money.

This is mostly what I see happening. You look at Liberty Village, and all these up and coming condo areas and these are the people that live there - either that or renter. You don't even need a car any more.

As for globalization, competing, etc, I don't say so much as a complaint. I agree that we gotta step it up. however I dont like the double standard. Where on the one hand, we give incentives for workers to come here, but on the other, you look at the countries they coming from and no incentive for us to go there.

I would go live and work in China for a couple of years if it was possible. Just to see something different. Even India. They got alot of middle class/upper class and educated people, I just dont really feel that they are really willing to share with the rest of the world as we are here. I think thats my biggest gripe.

Oh well, be interesting to see the next few years how this will all play out. we Just need to get rid of all the crazy dictators and liberalize more countries and then will have true globalization. Nothign bad with that, I dont really like omni-cultures.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:20 PM   #51
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Mid town is my frame of reference for insanity. houses there for run down semis are well into 700k. for a detached getting into 1mill+ and you see young families there with nannies. to carry and afford the place along with the trips etc...they gotta be making good coin or big time debt. that many professional couples?

i think part of the housing issue right now is we have a cheap credit housing bubble. yes foreign investors don't help either in pushing up house prices. and partly emotion too where people feel the need to own a home at all costs.

i can't speak for either country about sharing...but why should they? but not sure what you mean by sharing either. not like we have been sharing the excesses of NA with the rest of the world either.

i'm hoping for the bubble to burst and just call me the modern day Tom Vu. For the young'uns on here google Tom Vu for his fantastic videos!
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:36 PM   #52
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well i guess many rely on food banks...but you wouldn't know it when you go to bars...etc.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/9688...awareness-week

or driving around GTA bound by steeles to the lake - Leslie to Bathurst. that is a big area and I sure see wealth there or the image of it.
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:04 AM   #53
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good article SiR..

I know from stuff i've read & posted that 60% of canadians are living cheque to cheque and those people would be in real bad shape if it were delayed by a few days! retirement savings or savings is not something these people will ever have - and thats more than half of our population!
That's because people don't manage their $$$ properly. At my workplace the hourly rate for a assembly line employee is over $30/hr and yet most people live cheque to cheque and they get paid weekly and make a min of 8 hrs of OT a week!!
In fact there is a visible minority of people that ask for a pay advance on a regular basis.
The smart ones, have no mortgage, a few rental properties and sizable savings and no consumer debt.

The reason a good portion of those 60% that live pay to pay would be in trouble is because they are STUPID. That's right I said it.
I work with several of these individuals who have a 2 mortgages (house and cottage), 2 car payments, motorcycle payment, snowmobile payment, boat payment and sizable credit card debt. They would be dead in the water within a month of losing their jobs. Never mind any talk of savings or putting $$$ away for RRSP's.

As for engineers not being able to find jobs once they graduated, especially this year Plenty of jobs out there. In fact an engineering student I know was able to get a summer eng. job without too much hardship and without any connections. You get what you put into it. Some individuals will succeed no matter what obstacle you put in front of them, others will whine and cry at the smallest inconvenience saying how it is unfair and blame others for their lack of determination and hard work.

As a side note there is plenty of jobs and $$$$ in Alberta. If you really want to make money after university or getting your trade ticket or heck even as unskilled labour, that is the place to go. Sure you might live in Faq nowhere for a few years, but if you are smart and manage your $$$ properly you can come back with work experience and a ton of $$$ in savings to but that Toronto house you think you will never be able to afford.

Will it suck to be away from friends and family in a new and unfamiliar location with really cold winters, sure, but hey there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Do others have it easier? Sure!! BUT the majority of the world has it 100000000x times harder.

To be among the richest 10% of adults in the world required US$61,000 in assets. Some of you own cars worth more than that! Most BMW's cost more than that new.

Canada still is the land of oppourtunity if you are willing to seize it and work hard for it. And for all those that cry about immigrants taking Canadian jobs away, BS.

Ask anyone that was an engineer/accountant/doctor/dentist/nurse in another country how easy it was to find a job in your profession once they came to Canada? And then see if you not being able to land that $60k job straight out of university is really that hard.

Last edited by marek; 05-10-2012 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:47 PM   #54
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^ nice...well put.
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:55 AM   #55
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That's because people don't manage their $$$ properly. At my workplace the hourly rate for a assembly line employee is over $30/hr and yet most people live cheque to cheque and they get paid weekly and make a min of 8 hrs of OT a week!!
In fact there is a visible minority of people that ask for a pay advance on a regular basis.
The smart ones, have no mortgage, a few rental properties and sizable savings and no consumer debt.

The reason a good portion of those 60% that live pay to pay would be in trouble is because they are STUPID. That's right I said it.
^ Good Post.

I’ve never been to India (or China), but from friends who’ve bought houses and cars for parents in the major cities of India, it’s not cheap. Not everyone lives in “Tents” covered in filth. Ignorance is bliss…

Take a look at properties outside of New Deli (New Deli would be more)..... $253K USD, and I bet they don’t have much of a mortgage.

I looked into investment properties there. Gone are the days of buying a house for $25K USD in India near major cities.

*** See picture below

You’ll naturally have more India’s or Chinese with more education, because those societies put a greater importance on education (A lot of them have done their master’s and PHD’s here in North America).

Things we learned in grade 10 science/physics are taught in grade 7/8 in major Indian schools.
And we are “not allowed” to fail or keep kids back a grade if they don’t pass….. nice!!!


That’s why in India, a bus driver, construction worker, or an assembly worker wouldn’t make an equiv of $60K/year. Education = $$$$$ not physical labour.

There are jobs. It was actually hard to hire Engineer’s who were truly smart (not book smart). Some people don't interview well. Some just passed by. Some went to bad schools.

Jobs went to two Indians who did their undergrads at Waterloo and UofT. Among the whites, the work ethics was not there – a sense of entitlement was.

But here, because of the unions, you have bus drivers and auto workers making $60-$80K/year and most likely more than a new engineering graduate.

I know tons of these TTC/Union works…. No education at all… making very good money, waiting to retire with big pensions. Thanks Unions!!!!

Having house prices drop by 50% sounds great for people (more affordable), but that would mean huge unemployment, drop in the GDP, loss of jobs. You think the states was bad……
Buying a house would be the least of your worries.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg India House Prices.jpg (263.8 KB, 20 views)

Last edited by MrRWD; 05-11-2012 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:33 PM   #56
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But here, because of the unions, you have bus drivers and auto workers making $60-$80K/year and most likely more than a new engineering graduate.

I know tons of these TTC/Union works…. No education at all… making very good money, waiting to retire with big pensions. Thanks Unions!!!!
That's the key issue. I'm not against unions, as they helped to bring every ones wages and working standards up, but how much they get away with here. In the end it is managements fault for allowing it to get to this point.

A lot of these guys make 6 figures (sure they have to work overtime to make that but not as much OT as you think) with excellent pensions and other perks, yet they still complain and take advantage of the system. You are going to add to my work, then I will go on restriction or comp for getting "injured" and many other examples.

The union leaders just perpetuate this by trying to defend them even with clear evidence against them such as video of their wrong doings.

We need a more balanced management union work environment in most cases. When things become one sides it's not good for either side.
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:54 PM   #57
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Ah, the union-hatorade.

Coming from a non-unionized worker who is jealous?
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:55 PM   #58
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That's the key issue. I'm not against unions, as they helped to bring every ones wages and working standards up, but how much they get away with here. In the end it is managements fault for allowing it to get to this point.

A lot of these guys make 6 figures (sure they have to work overtime to make that but not as much OT as you think) with excellent pensions and other perks, yet they still complain and take advantage of the system. You are going to add to my work, then I will go on restriction or comp for getting "injured" and many other examples.

The union leaders just perpetuate this by trying to defend them even with clear evidence against them such as video of their wrong doings.

We need a more balanced management union work environment in most cases. When things become one sides it's not good for either side.
Totally Agree with you.


When GM couldn't build enough trucks for the demand (Margins are very high on these), and the Unions used to strike, they would simply give in.
- Lifetime Medical
- Tuition for their kids
- Guaranteed Work

Whatever the Unions asked, they got....... I'd like to be part of a Union as well...
Everyone should have known the gravy train would soon end… .

Remember Budd Automotive out in Kitchener.
They made Truck Frames. Employed 3000 employee's.

- You'd see those workers strike year after year.

I know a few that were making $100K+ with overtime back in 2005ish.
They bought $500K homes, with variable interest rates, at their max budget.
(Knew a few cases).

I wonder where they are now??? Things like this lead to the housing boom.
(The plant closed in 2009. I laughed my head off).

I don’t know what immigrants that are coming from the tent villages in India/China, and getting $100K jobs here.

The ones that do get those jobs, are highly educated, very skilled, and bring a lot of assets to Canada (Cash). I know tons that have brought $200-400K into Canada and bought homes, cars, furniture here. That's what our economy needs. Not 5% down.. but 20-50% down on homes.

It’s our local white folks that live on extreme credit, and think owning a 4 Bedroom, 2 Car Garage, Single Detached house in Toronto is a right.

If you did a poll on the rental squatters, late rent payers, frequent visitors to tenant tribunal, it’s going to be our good old white folks. …. “Canadians”…..

Also, most Asian/Indian parents will leave a good size inheritance for their kids. White folks will make their last cheque bounce.
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:57 PM   #59
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The most biased, one sided, mis-informed, non-sense I've read here for a while.
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:05 PM   #60
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I'd like to be part of a Union as well...
Hilarity
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