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Old 01-13-2012, 01:11 PM   #1
v_bimmer
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Need legal advise on how to handle scamming lawyer



As you guys know i operate small business company and sell car electronics online. One of our customers (who is a lawyer in Ohio) bought our product, installed in his car, but it did not work as he expected. We issued full refund through Paypal and thought that the issue is re-solved.
However, he now sends us emails where he states that he opened a case under Ohio Consumer Sales Practices Act where he is claiming that we breached contract and the product was not what was stated on our website. He was forced to buy another product. Now claims that we need to pay $240 to cover the cost of similar product from another supplier plus his legal fees. The cost of our product is only $100. Otherwise he threatens to block our gmail and paypal accounts based on the rulings from the Ohio court that he will win because of our no-show.
We are small online company and we are not sure how to handle this case as we don't have money to go to Ohio or hire legal professional.
But on the other side it seems like this guy is taking advantage of his law practice and just scamming us (maybe he did this to other companies). Our website states the refund policies and disclaimers about our limited liability. There is no damage to his property and his payment was fully refunded.
Please advise.

This is his website j r m l a w . com
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:20 PM   #2
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Personally, I'd ignore him. If he is actually going to sue, I'm guessing you'll get notice from the courts.

http://www.afit.edu/ja/docs/smallclaimscourtweb.pdf some good brief info here
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:30 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v_bimmer View Post
As you guys know i operate small business company and sell car electronics online. One of our customers (who is a lawyer in Ohio) bought our product, installed in his car, but it did not work as he expected. We issued full refund through Paypal and thought that the issue is re-solved.
However, he now sends us emails where he states that he opened a case under Ohio Consumer Sales Practices Act where he is claiming that we breached contract and the product was not what was stated on our website. He was forced to buy another product. Now claims that we need to pay $240 to cover the cost of similar product from another supplier plus his legal fees. The cost of our product is only $100. Otherwise he threatens to block our gmail and paypal accounts based on the rulings from the Ohio court that he will win because of our no-show.
We are small online company and we are not sure how to handle this case as we don't have money to go to Ohio or hire legal professional.
But on the other side it seems like this guy is taking advantage of his law practice and just scamming us (maybe he did this to other companies). Our website states the refund policies and disclaimers about our limited liability. There is no damage to his property and his payment was fully refunded.
Please advise.

This is his website http://jrmlaw.com/
I am no lawyer but read the Ohio Consumer sales Practise Act - i think its like the lemon law.

Definition of Ohio Consumer Sales Practices Act : link removed per request

Based on that you are not practising unfair or deceptive sales, I would wait or request from him the official filing from the court..

Furthermore for him to get google or paypal to block your account, he has to submit a request to them as well..

I would probaby write a nice email stating your business practise outlining this
"Our website states the refund policies and disclaimers about our limited liability" and added that a full refund was given to him and have alot of clients testimonies to your good product. ( This is to show the court that you have done your best practise - if you ever go to court)

Depending on how big your business is, sometimes it just best to "give" him the $240 or call his bluff or totally ignore him. Consulting a lawyer here will set you back $350.

I think he has been doing this all his life, small claim is one of his specialty from his website...

Last edited by damameke; 01-13-2012 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:00 PM   #4
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he is claiming that we breached contract and the product was not what was stated on our website.
Did you indeed ship him same product as your website shows? did you offer him a direct replacement? Have you tried calling him to discuss... sometimes a personal call can go along way...
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:03 PM   #5
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Yep, ignore him
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:10 PM   #6
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wow! what a prick! shessh...he got his money back and wants more! that's brutal.

this guy doesn't sound reasonable at all...and enjoys trying to beat the retailers. ignore till something happens i guess. man..over $100. may karma slap this guy up.
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Old 01-13-2012, 05:15 PM   #7
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karma will get him back - it always does somehow.
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Old 01-13-2012, 05:50 PM   #8
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Can he really do that? When a transaction takes place outside of the jurisdicition/State how does one determine where to apply the law?
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:49 PM   #9
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Can he really do that? When a transaction takes place outside of the jurisdicition/State how does one determine where to apply the law?
When you read that Ohio Consumer Sales Practise Act, it covers a few Ohio cities of that state and he has to file under that jurisdiction, so I dont think it will fly especially when it comes to internet sales.....

The product he ordered did not fit his car or other reason and he received his full refund, there is no breach of contract(no contract in the first place- just a sales transaction), no false advertising and he wasnt forced to buy anther product, he chosed to buy another product..

I would spam his email address.. lol..
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:49 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Coupedup View Post
Did you indeed ship him same product as your website shows? did you offer him a direct replacement? Have you tried calling him to discuss... sometimes a personal call can go along way...
he would not answer my phone calls.

The product was as described, but there was something defective about his. We offered him a complete replacement, but he only wanted to accept it, if we shipped it overnight.

Next morning we already had a PayPal claim, and we didn't want to deal with him so we just refunded his money. (now i regret just refunding his money)

He didn't even ship the product back.
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:02 PM   #11
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link to your site?
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:48 PM   #12
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When you read that Ohio Consumer Sales Practise Act, it covers a few Ohio cities of that state and he has to file under that jurisdiction, so I dont think it will fly especially when it comes to internet sales.....

The product he ordered did not fit his car or other reason and he received his full refund, there is no breach of contract(no contract in the first place- just a sales transaction), no false advertising and he wasnt forced to buy anther product, he chosed to buy another product..

I would spam his email address.. lol..

I haven't read torts law in a while but im pretty sure it's a contract when you buy something, not just a transaction.

however there is no law that says you have to provide a refund.

If your product matches the description then he's just being a little bitch. I think you should wish him luck with the courts.


I am not sure how paypal or google or whatever faciliates the transaction, or what they could do. My advice is make sure you understand your contractual obligations between yourself and paypal and google and just ignore this shmuck.
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:52 PM   #13
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Paypal doesn't arbitrarily close accounts, only if you have too many disputes. And your takeaway on this should be to thoroughly document transactions and agreements, and avoid using paypal. I've heard of many cases where sellers got scammed this way, where they send a product, buyer says they never got it or it's defective, file a dispute or chargeback, and get your money and the goods. If this guy's a scammer, how easily you refunded possibly encouraged him to skim some extra.

I'd first tell him to return the refunded product before you have him charged with theft. And I'd also call his bluff and say after you return the goods, go ahead and take me to court, and prepare to pay for court costs in the counter-suit. If the papers show up, either wipe your ass with them (and don't get pulled over in Ohio) or hire someone to act on your behalf. Don't worry about having anything frozen. You'd be lucky to collect 50 bucks from your neighbor in a small-claims win, and he thinks he can get something done internationally?

If he's a scammer, that's the last you'll hear from him. If he's really a middle aged lawyer who bought a stereo from you, then odds are he'll back off once he calms down. Many lawyers like this are bullies, like to threaten people with legal action since lawyering up for them is free. But they're also not stupid and know that this isn't TV and you need an actual case to win, and there's the counter-suit. So they calm down and back off.

Good luck with your decision.
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:59 PM   #14
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Ugh reading this makes me sick.

Good luck to you. This is completely ridiculous.
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:32 PM   #15
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Paypal doesn't arbitrarily close accounts, only if you have too many disputes. And your takeaway on this should be to thoroughly document transactions and agreements, and avoid using paypal. I've heard of many cases where sellers got scammed this way, where they send a product, buyer says they never got it or it's defective, file a dispute or chargeback, and get your money and the goods. If this guy's a scammer, how easily you refunded possibly encouraged him to skim some extra.

I'd first tell him to return the refunded product before you have him charged with theft. And I'd also call his bluff and say after you return the goods, go ahead and take me to court, and prepare to pay for court costs in the counter-suit. If the papers show up, either wipe your ass with them (and don't get pulled over in Ohio) or hire someone to act on your behalf. Don't worry about having anything frozen. You'd be lucky to collect 50 bucks from your neighbor in a small-claims win, and he thinks he can get something done internationally?

If he's a scammer, that's the last you'll hear from him. If he's really a middle aged lawyer who bought a stereo from you, then odds are he'll back off once he calms down. Many lawyers like this are bullies, like to threaten people with legal action since lawyering up for them is free. But they're also not stupid and know that this isn't TV and you need an actual case to win, and there's the counter-suit. So they calm down and back off.

Good luck with your decision.
This. Paypal is only good for buying. I ve had 3 chargebacks but won ALL 3. Reason is i take macro pics of what i sell, from every angle, time stamped, and always ship out with tracking and insurance.

Its easy to **** scammers back over. No goods sent back = no money back, and you can always call paypal and they will take care of you, thats how i did it, by phone.

Anyways, avoid it if you can lolz
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