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Old 12-03-2011, 07:49 PM   #1
calegrant
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UC Davis from another perspective



What a shock, more to the video than the edited version leads you to believe. Following a leaders chants, encircling the police to trap them (the cops could have gotten nasty at this point and busted out the paper spray right away but they didn't, even though they would have been justified in it), screaming "**** the police" in unison before one student is wise enough to see how immature and bad that makes their group appear, students twisting the words of a cop leading to a rant about not shooting students. Throughout the entire video what do you hear and see, laughs and smiles...definitely the type of demeanour one would usually have when fighting for such a noble cause in their eyes right ?

What does it end with? The protesters "allowing" the police to leave.

This video only further reinforces my prior assumptions of the protesters being childish, weak minded lemmings who acted well outside of what could be considered reasonable in terms of a protest. But hey, they're fighting for a cause so that makes them noble and respectable right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhPdH3wE0_Y
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Old 12-03-2011, 09:23 PM   #2
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Your prior assumptions do not deserve a thread on max.
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Old 12-03-2011, 11:16 PM   #3
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New material on a thread that got 3500 views does
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:43 AM   #4
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when police round up protesters like cattle, with force, that is okay though


Quote:
Throughout the entire video what do you hear and see, laughs and smiles...definitely the type of demeanour one would usually have when fighting for such a noble cause in their eyes right ?
would you prefer the students have the look of murder/rage in their faces? Because Im not sure if you know what happens to people when they aren't smiling laughing.
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:31 PM   #5
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Yes it is ok for individuals appointed a certain amount of power to enforce laws those citizens choose to put in place. If you're actually going to claim common citizens should have an equal ability to detain individuals as the police, not based on enforcement of law but on disapproval of enforcement of law then you're a fool.

It's not that I have a certain expectation of their emotion, it's just that this video tells me that a large number of them think it's a joke to break the law and that they can get away with it, it's like the mob mentality during the Vancouver riots. Just like the riots, do you think all these individuals would resist arrest had they been acting alone? Of course not, they think because someone else is doing it that it's ok. I think that if you're going to go to such extremes as breaking the law for a cause it should be something you're passionate about, being all smiles and laughs when a cause you're oh-so-passionate about is being fought for leads me to believe they're just there for the experience.
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Old 12-04-2011, 03:00 PM   #6
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which laws did the protesters break?

oh you mean bilaw 12031233 subsection a, subseciont 31 d, where it says that people cant camp out over night??

OH but you can camp out at Best buy all night though on black friday or boxing day?

to be honest i think your beliefs are a joke.
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Old 12-04-2011, 03:36 PM   #7
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A law is a law, who are you to argue what is or is not a viable one? Arguing it's validity at the time of breaking it is not something you're going to get away with. Maybe if you're ever pulled over under the BS street racing law you should resist arrest and drive off at 200km/h as a sign of rebellion, be sure to document it well so we can all have a laugh at your expense.

Physical force was not used by the police until they were met with physical force as the children attempted to detain the police from leaving (crime), that is why the pepper spray came out...it was not because of the students who chose to camp there. Forcing cops into a corner and expecting no consequences isn't a very smart move. Hence the guys coming in at the 13 minute mark demanding people move. Just like the shorter version, I'm sure there's more to it than either video's show but this latest one clearly shows the police showed restraint for quite some time.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:00 PM   #8
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look at the end of the day this is stupid - the students were given multiple opportunities to clear out. It is the universities property and they can choose to remove people as they please. If the students don't want to move they ARE going to get sprayed, arrested etc...

Is it an excessive use of authority, a bit, but I honestly don't care. This whole OWS stuff is stupid, get off your ass, go find a job and stop buying Apple products.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:38 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jim .E. View Post
look at the end of the day this is stupid - the students were given multiple opportunities to clear out. It is the universities property and they can choose to remove people as they please. If the students don't want to move they ARE going to get sprayed, arrested etc...

Is it an excessive use of authority, a bit, but I honestly don't care. This whole OWS stuff is stupid, get off your ass, go find a job and stop buying Apple products.
"The whole OWS stuff is stupid." "i honestly don't care"




your just ignorant brohan. If you read the other thread pertaining to this then you would think otherwise. Or your just one of those people with the mentality that "everyone for themselves" instead of "we're in this together". Learn to learn, develop some social solidarity and then you can think you are more right.




















God I feel pity for those OWS people protesting for things you would benefit from....or let me guess your a financial corporate CEO? part of Bretton Woods institutes? a corporate libertarian who thinks that its ok that 20% of the world owns 82% of its wealth? That its ok for corporations to lobby politicians into power? That a corporation has the same and more rights than an individual? That its ok they are part of the "flak" associated with the propaganda model? That they can illegally foreclose homes? That its ok to take BILLIONS of public money and still give out bonuses? That its ok corporations purposely block alternate energy sources when it benefits them (EV1, city design, etc). And probably the most important, since this is what the 2008 crisis emerged from that its ok for banks to become hedge funds and get into the unregulated derivative market?


Oh wait I guess that it is all stupid? man go back to whatever hole in which you take solace. You want to argue they are breaking the law, fine. But do not insinuate the whole world wide OWS movement is stupid. BUT again if the above is what you think is ok then it is stupid, but you'd be a very small minority.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calegrant View Post
A law is a law, who are you to argue what is or is not a viable one? Arguing it's validity at the time of breaking it is not something you're going to get away with. Maybe if you're ever pulled over under the BS street racing law you should resist arrest and drive off at 200km/h as a sign of rebellion, be sure to document it well so we can all have a laugh at your expense.

Physical force was not used by the police until they were met with physical force as the children attempted to detain the police from leaving (crime), that is why the pepper spray came out...it was not because of the students who chose to camp there. Forcing cops into a corner and expecting no consequences isn't a very smart move. Hence the guys coming in at the 13 minute mark demanding people move. Just like the shorter version, I'm sure there's more to it than either video's show but this latest one clearly shows the police showed restraint for quite some time.
"a law is a law, who are you to argue what it is viable or not"



so in downtown Toronto when they pass NEW laws making it illegal to camp out overnight in a park, or to even lie down that means that LAW that affects the PUBLIC is not up for discussion. huh. But hey your so smart about police code of conduct that you ignore that cop is being reprimanded.

"acted well outside of what could be considered reasonable in terms of a protest". You know nothing about protests, who are you trying to fool.


vid: "saying we won't move until you release who you arrested is a serious threat"........... man you a are ****ing joke

"blocking the police"....did you see the 100 hundred or so cops in riot gear attempt to go around? But oh no that is threatening to their security and justifies use of force.

chanting "don't shoot students" while the cop nonchalantly shakes up the pepper spray is so justified huh!

chanting "we are going to to support our friends who have been unjustly arrested for participating in their rights, lets march peacefully as one towards where they are being held" MY GOD CALL IN THE FU*CKING TANKS

"if you let them go we will continue to protest peacefully" again this is a threat! oh NO they won't be peaceful no more! wait - why were they arrested then in the first place if they were peaceful (oh wait yeah the BS laws you think aren't up for discussion) ? is this why they have an antagonistic relationship with the police?

"from davis to greece, **** the police" Well yeah as follows they are going to chant that.

"you use weapons we use our voice" man these punk weak minded kids EY!

"don't shoot your children" empathetic plight from them to the cops. Empathetic because the cops probably have kids their age.

All this shows restraint on the part of cops according to you. That your prior assumptions of the students being "weak minded lemmings". Oh man your mom should of swallowed you. OH NO wait I insulted you and now my arguments are void in your world right? I mean who can take you seriously.











All in all you are a joke!. I'd imagine you would be the British armchair critic in the 1940s when Ghandi was protesting non violently and saying that the British followed the laws accordingly and that the Indians broke the laws and deserved "excessive force" because that was the only way to clear them out. The same laws created by the British. So yes they are "fighting for a cause and that does make them noble and respectable". Man who are you trying to fool here, only yourself. I mean for others reading this and agree with this guy then please speak up. I want for amusement.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calegrant View Post
A law is a law, who are you to argue what is or is not a viable one? Arguing it's validity at the time of breaking it is not something you're going to get away with. Maybe if you're ever pulled over under the BS street racing law you should resist arrest and drive off at 200km/h as a sign of rebellion, be sure to document it well so we can all have a laugh at your expense.

Physical force was not used by the police until they were met with physical force as the children attempted to detain the police from leaving (crime), that is why the pepper spray came out...it was not because of the students who chose to camp there. Forcing cops into a corner and expecting no consequences isn't a very smart move. Hence the guys coming in at the 13 minute mark demanding people move. Just like the shorter version, I'm sure there's more to it than either video's show but this latest one clearly shows the police showed restraint for quite some time.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South View Post
"a law is a law, who are you to argue what it is viable or not"



so in downtown Toronto when they pass NEW laws making it illegal to camp out overnight in a park, or to even lie down that means that LAW that affects the PUBLIC is not up for discussion. huh. But hey your so smart about police code of conduct that you ignore that cop is being reprimanded.

"acted well outside of what could be considered reasonable in terms of a protest". You know nothing about protests, who are you trying to fool.


vid: "saying we won't move until you release who you arrested is a serious threat"........... man you a are ****ing joke

"blocking the police"....did you see the 100 hundred or so cops in riot gear attempt to go around? But oh no that is threatening to their security and justifies use of force.

chanting "don't shoot students" while the cop nonchalantly shakes up the pepper spray is so justified huh!

chanting "we are going to to support our friends who have been unjustly arrested for participating in their rights, lets march peacefully as one towards where they are being held" MY GOD CALL IN THE FU*CKING TANKS

"if you let them go we will continue to protest peacefully" again this is a threat! oh NO they won't be peaceful no more! wait - why were they arrested then in the first place if they were peaceful (oh wait yeah the BS laws you think aren't up for discussion) ? is this why they have an antagonistic relationship with the police?

"from davis to greece, **** the police" Well yeah as follows they are going to chant that.

"you use weapons we use our voice" man these punk weak minded kids EY!

"don't shoot your children" empathetic plight from them to the cops. Empathetic because the cops probably have kids their age.

All this shows restraint on the part of cops according to you. That your prior assumptions of the students being "weak minded lemmings". Oh man your mom should of swallowed you. OH NO wait I insulted you and now my arguments are void in your world right? I mean who can take you seriously.











All in all you are a joke!. I'd imagine you would be the British armchair critic in the 1940s when Ghandi was protesting non violently and saying that the British followed the laws accordingly and that the Indians broke the laws and deserved "excessive force" because that was the only way to clear them out. The same laws created by the British. So yes they are "fighting for a cause and that does make them noble and respectable". Man who are you trying to fool here, only yourself. I mean for others reading this and agree with this guy then please speak up. I want for amusement.
Great rant, get back to me when you have a basic understanding of our legal system and understand the mob was in essence detaining the police. They had no right to coral the police like that forcing them to make the next move into physically making their way out of the situation. Had this happened 2 on 1 in an ally somewhere it's very likely one of them would've gotten shot. It's not justified because it's occurring in higher numbers. Again I'm not arguing the amount of force used was necessary, but that use of force was demanded by the protesters when they took the action to circle the cops.

You and so many like you try to justify illegal action based on the extent of how far it travels from the border of when it becomes illegal, it's still an illegal act. The time that illegal action is taking place is not the time to argue it, protest later on if you want to fight for your right to back police into a corner.

As for the fact that it was a police force in full riot gear, that makes no difference. Trying to physical coral them and forcing them to comply is no more acceptable than had they done this to peaceful protesters, which they did not do in this case. At no point did the police try and stop them from leaving, but the protesters are allowed to do this and get away with it...because the cops are tough and protected by your logic? Play the victim more please. All you do is include yourself in controversial social topics on this forum, who's the troll in this thread? You're a troll on society and nothing more it seems, get back at me when you actually contribute lil' guy.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim .E. View Post
Is it an excessive use of authority, a bit, but I honestly don't care. This whole OWS stuff is stupid, get off your ass, go find a job and stop buying Apple products.
The OWS was actually started for some very necessary and noble ideals. This statement leads me to believe you have no idea what it's actually about or what they're fighting for, for you.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:19 PM   #14
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Great rant, get back to me when you have a basic understanding of our legal system and understand the mob was in essence detaining the police.

You and so many like you try to justify illegal action based on the extent of how far it travels from the border of when it becomes illegal, it's still an illegal act. The time that illegal action is taking place is not the time to argue it, protest later on if you want to fight for your right to back police into a corner.

As for the fact that it was a police force in full riot gear, that makes no difference. Trying to physical coral them and forcing them to comply is no more acceptable than had they done this to peaceful protesters, which they did not do in this case. At no point did the police try and stop them from leaving, but the protesters are allowed to do this and get away with it...because the cops are tough and protected by your logic? Play the victim more please.
"Great rant, get back to me when you have a basic understanding of our legal system and understand the mob was in essence detaining the police. "

I think you are very stupid or a very subtle troll. A rant is does not present a coherent argument, my response quoted all your video, your argument and presented your idiocy. Basic understanding of our legal system is something I do possess, if you would stop trolling and read what I write then you would find that clear. The mob was in essence detaining the police. Man I do not know if I should continue with such a stupid comment as I addressed this also in my response, so again I will repeat that your mother should have swallowed you.

"You and so many like you try to justify illegal action based on the extent of how far it travels from the border of when it becomes illegal, it's still an illegal act."

Yes hence my reference to Ghandi and the British justification of using force under the laws they written. I also said, as did Sirex said, that municipalities have passed new laws specifically aimed at getting rid of OWS. Remember in my post of how they passed new laws making it illegal to lie down on a bench or camp out in parks. So your argument that the LAW is the LAW Mr. Judge Dred is not based on the public welfare, but for elites who want the issue OWS brings to attention and the eyesore it creates for the rich who don't want to see poverty gone. Also consequences become more severe how much someone broke a law, so the more is "travels from the border" the more severe the consequences, especially in Tort law. All this also voids your continuation that

"The time that illegal action is taking place is not the time to argue it, protest later on if you want to fight for your right to back police into a corner".

They were their already protesting, then new laws came and according to you they should stop, and then argue it later on. Once again you say they corned the police and are superimposing your idiocy that they want the right to be able to do so. So once again I will say your mother should of swallowed you.

"As for the fact that it was a police force in full riot gear, that makes no difference. Trying to physical coral them and forcing them to comply is no more acceptable than had they done this to peaceful protesters, which they did not do in this case. "

It does makes a difference they were in riot gear and in numbers as well. It shows that these so called weak minded individuals who chant peaceful slogans for the most part (exception of **** the police from Davis to greece") do not fit the MO of taking on riot police. In fact quite the opposite they chant peacefully with peaceful demands. All quoted and argued in my response above. So again your logic that the students were "trying to psychical coral them and forcing them to comply" is incredibly stupid to even argue. All addressed in my response as well so again your mother should of swallowed you. However, the police did FORCE the protestors to comply, and it wasn't with words in the end, but that is it justified to you because of the outlined view you have Mr. Judge Dred that the law is the law. Again all addressed in my response.

"At no point did the police try and stop them from leaving, but the protesters are allowed to do this and get away with it...because the cops are tough and protected by your logic? Play the victim more please."

Ok you state that the police did not try and stop them from leaving, but clearly the other protestors wanted the release of their fellow protestors, so definitely some of them were stopped from leaving. Besides why should the protestors leave if they are being peaceful, its their right to, and its something the students knew and were heard chanting. Again all in my response. But the law is the law Mr. Judge Dred right? As for your insistence that the police were the ONES being detained, well I have addressed that in this post and in my response. So once again your mother should of swallowed you brohan. As for playing the victim, if that's troll for "have more social solidarity" then I will, thank you.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
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The OWS was actually started for some very necessary and noble ideals. This statement leads me to believe you have no idea what it's actually about or what they're fighting for, for you.
Oh posh, says Mr. Judge Dred who says the law is the law. Listen most of the OWS issues are legal laws, such as the constitutionally recognized law that corporations have rights, the deregulation of derivative market was done legally, the merger of hedgefunds and banks was done legally, the right corporations have to sponsor politicians was done legally, etc etc etc.

But yet when these OWS which you claimed and I'll quote "But hey, they're fighting for a cause so that makes them noble and respectable right
" in response to how they are breaking new laws aimed at getting rid OWS movements.

Now you are saying it started out noble but implying that it is not anymore such as the Davis protest? or that it is still noble and OWS do deserve respect unless they break the laws ?


So in summery the OWS is "necessary and [has] noble ideals" but yet the necessary and noble ideals would have the laws legally passed removed/changed. To do this the OWS has protests and camp outs, which get new laws passed legally and makes the home turf of the OWS illegal. You then say that since it is a law that OWS should just pack up and go and protest this new law to be able to protest the initial OWS ideals that address other laws that effect the elites. The same elites that probably influenced and created the new laws prohibiting the OWS movement from growing and even surviving.

Get it?
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