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Old 11-14-2011, 07:22 PM   #1
njansenv
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M52 swap - OBDI? OBDII? MSII?

Good evening all. I'm going to start compiling the parts for my M52 swap. The plan is (at least) S52 cams and M50 intake. I'd like to leave the door open for a modest turbo build down the road, but that's a secondary wish.

I had planned to do an OBDII swap, with EWS, secondary O2's, air pump etc disabled.

Then I read a bit on OBDI swaps, and it's significantly cheaper than it once was...and I like that it's not too difficult to tune a 413 ECU.

Finally, I like Megasquirt. I've used it on a 300whp turbo neon, 215whp NA neon and a Briggs and Stratton 3.5hp. It works, isn't tooo difficult to sort out...but it is a stand-a-lone with all the pros (flexibility) and cons (tuning $@## cold start).

Thoughts?
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1998 328i "M-tech"
2001 TDI Golf. 1300km/tank commuter. Boring, slow, cheap.
1991 P-car: 964c4 Let the porcupine jokes commence.


Gone: '99 M3 vert, '98 M3 sedan, '91 E30, '89 E30, '87 E30, '91 Euro M5, '93 6-speed Corvette, STI v8 swapped '98 Impreza, '73 2002, 2004 325iT
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:36 PM   #2
craz azn
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I like OBD2. Its more sophisticated than OBD1, better on gas, much more compliant when it comes to scanning something... only downside (to me) is how it revs. Sooooo slow!

OBD1 system makes the car feel a lot sharper, I guess which is why people love the swap so much, and the fact it is just a simple chip to change versus a flash... Plus there are a few options out there for Turbo tunes, and that market will only grow with time, so that would seal the deal for me instead of haggling with tuning MS (I'm lazy lol).
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:14 AM   #3
Roysneon
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Off Topic but...Were you on any of the big Neon forums? What is/was your screen name?
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:20 AM   #4
BigD
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What Rudy said but the inverse. In my mind, the only reason to go OBD2 is if you want to save trees. Well also if you know nothing about cars and you want to make it somewhat easier for a mechanic to diagnose your car. There's no reason an OBD1 system should be any less fuel efficient. The extra O2 sensors in OBD2 don't add to efficiency, just lets you know if one of the cats is dead. Other than that, the 413 is capable of everything you need/want.

If you know MS and are clearly capable of doing it, then the only question is if you feel like it. It's been done enough that you won't be starting from scratch. Odds are once you sort out any initial installation/configuration bugs, you'll be up and running like OEM (since timing, fuel maps etc are all out there for these motors).

One word of warning about 413, if you decide to go turbo down the road, it will work but it's really not the best way to go. It is quite simple with the various solutions available but it's still far more limited and cumbersome than a standalone (for example, to make every config/tune change, you have to reboot the 413, no live tuning).

For what it's worth, this is the computer I use: http://www.vems.hu

If you're comfortable with MS, you should feel at home with VEMS pretty quickly as well.
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:31 AM   #5
njansenv
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I spent an embarrassing amount of time on neoncanada and neons.org. Same user name. . I had a '96 ACR w/cammed 2.4 then SRT4 swap.

Thanks for the info, all of you.
One of my lesser concerns is resale - I suspect MS is the worst in the regard, since having a standalone isn't for everyone.... I'll have to do some more reading.
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1998 328i "M-tech"
2001 TDI Golf. 1300km/tank commuter. Boring, slow, cheap.
1991 P-car: 964c4 Let the porcupine jokes commence.


Gone: '99 M3 vert, '98 M3 sedan, '91 E30, '89 E30, '87 E30, '91 Euro M5, '93 6-speed Corvette, STI v8 swapped '98 Impreza, '73 2002, 2004 325iT

Last edited by njansenv; 11-15-2011 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:32 AM   #6
cormier
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Oo the debate begins! Lol obd1 doesn't make much more power than the m50 manifold alone but it is simpler not to have to use the 4 o2s and air pump -- if you're planning not to use them anyways might be worthwhile to just use obd1
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