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Old 03-08-2011, 04:56 PM   #31
bmdbley'sBro
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wanna save on gas

2011 Chevrolet Cruze Eco

Mechanically, the green-friendly Cruze uses the existing 138-horsepower, 1.4-liter turbo four-cylinder, a revised transmission, a slightly lower ride height and low-rolling resistance tires. 148 lb-ft of torque. The important numbers are fuel consumption and the Eco is rated at 7.2 L/100km city and - get this - 4.6 city. That's amazing stuff for a 138-horsepower car that weighs in around 1,400 kilograms.

http://autos.sympatico.ca/reviews/82...a-little-extra
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:56 PM   #32
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LOL DUDE, I dont think you understood what many people here are talking about.

No one is argueing that hydrogen is an explosive element when mixed with oxygen. We know that this is true.

What people are argueing is the ability of this contraption making hydrogen easily.

Hydrogen takes up electricity to make. you need ALOT of hydrogen in order to feel any results.

Alot more hydrogen then you are going to get from using electrolysis on 1 litre of water.

This is why you dont understand the scam. The scam makes u believe youre getting hydrogen. Sure, you are getting VERY VERY VERY little hydrogen, but not enough to make any difference what so ever AT ALL.

You need a Propane tank, FILLEd with hydrogen to do anything useful. And to get a propane tank FILLEd with hydrogen is going to cost you MORE energy in GASOLINE to break water down into hydrogen/oxygen, then the HYDROGEN will provide.



As per your vegie oil comment.. Vege oil is still oil. When you fix your car/transform it to use vegie oil it is alot like burning diesel... There is alot of energy in breaking down those bonds. No one ever laughed at it - at least people that understood basic chemistry.

So, congrats on being scammed and trying to explain this differently to us.

As for negativity.......... ITS SCIENCE. SCIENCE SCIENCE SCIENCE SCIENC CHEMISTRY CHEMISTRY CHEMISTRY CHEMISTRY.

CHEMISTRY CHEMISTRY CHEMISTRY CHEMISTRY CHEMISTRY.

pick up a grade 3 science book and therien you will find your answer.




Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus View Post
We tested it yesterday on my friends Vette.
We cant really say if it affected economy but the car was slightly more powerful and eager.
Also we had the exhausts gases measured and at idle the defo were cleaner. Dont recall the exact figures. As you reved it though they did go back to normal. I asked the guy in the company and he said that this is normal and they do offer an option to adjust it on the go.
The price of the kit is not that bad and in my eyes even if it just gives a slight increase in power and no fuel saving then its worth it. Just to give you a price i was quoted about 500 CAD fitted and i can test it for a week before i pay for it. Off course if you add all the extras the price more than doubles....


The way i see it, its for sure that by adding hydrogen to the air-fuel mixture in a car's engine will allow the engine to burn the gas more completely because the hydrogen is simply more flammable.
I am not saying its working or not as i am not sure my self at the moment. But no need to diss the thing completely (whether it is or it isnt from Iceland Big D). Remember Diesel owners were told they can run their diesel engines on fuel made from vegetable oil and there were people laughing at the idea.....but are they now?
And i doubt the energy loss from the alternator by adding this is that dramatic. Its the same theory as replacing a viscous fan with an electric one. I doubt the loss is more than a couple of horsepower.

Last edited by sirex; 03-08-2011 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:21 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmdbley'sBro View Post
wanna save on gas

2011 Chevrolet Cruze Eco

Mechanically, the green-friendly Cruze uses the existing 138-horsepower, 1.4-liter turbo four-cylinder, a revised transmission, a slightly lower ride height and low-rolling resistance tires. 148 lb-ft of torque. The important numbers are fuel consumption and the Eco is rated at 7.2 L/100km city and - get this - 4.6 city. That's amazing stuff for a 138-horsepower car that weighs in around 1,400 kilograms.

http://autos.sympatico.ca/reviews/82...a-little-extra
Holy crap, that's even more impressive than the Ford Fiesta's numbers, although I'd still take the Fiesta over the Cruze.
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:44 PM   #34
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Didnt Mazda try to seperate hydrogen out from water in the mid 90's and they had a car at the car show (the system was in a miata). The reason they didnt go ahead with this is because it was to dangerous. Your basically driving around in a small bomb. If something were to happen and ignite the hydrogen then your dead. Brampton would look like Iraq in a year. Accidents would leave craters in the road.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:47 PM   #35
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Quote:
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brampton would look like iraq in a year.
rofl!
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:00 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
LOL DUDE, I dont think you understood what many people here are talking about.

No one is argueing that hydrogen is an explosive element when mixed with oxygen. We know that this is true.

What people are argueing is the ability of this contraption making hydrogen easily.

Hydrogen takes up electricity to make. you need ALOT of hydrogen in order to feel any results.

Alot more hydrogen then you are going to get from using electrolysis on 1 litre of water.

This is why you dont understand the scam. The scam makes u believe youre getting hydrogen. Sure, you are getting VERY VERY VERY little hydrogen, but not enough to make any difference what so ever AT ALL.

You need a Propane tank, FILLEd with hydrogen to do anything useful. And to get a propane tank FILLEd with hydrogen is going to cost you MORE energy in GASOLINE to break water down into hydrogen/oxygen, then the HYDROGEN will provide.



As per your vegie oil comment.. Vege oil is still oil. When you fix your car/transform it to use vegie oil it is alot like burning diesel... There is alot of energy in breaking down those bonds. No one ever laughed at it - at least people that understood basic chemistry.

So, congrats on being scammed and trying to explain this differently to us.

As for negativity.......... ITS SCIENCE. SCIENCE SCIENCE SCIENCE SCIENC CHEMISTRY CHEMISTRY CHEMISTRY CHEMISTRY.

CHEMISTRY CHEMISTRY CHEMISTRY CHEMISTRY CHEMISTRY.

pick up a grade 3 science book and therien you will find your answer.

thanks....your comment has been noted ....

If you had looked more into hydrogen you would know that the reason the car manufacturers dont use it is the difficulty storing it. Not the difficulty using it.
And my arguement is that idf this guy is prepared to let me use it for a week free of charge he must be pretty confident on it and also i stated that i cant see how the alternator will work overtime for it causing more stress to the engine than say a sound system would. So the loss in my eyes is not that great. And even if the economy savings are not there but i gain a litle more in power by cleaner burn then in BTU terms that is a gain when you consider you get more out of each liter of fuel.
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Last edited by magnus; 03-09-2011 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 03-09-2011, 06:11 PM   #37
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Hey Magnus,

If you looked more into my post, you would see I never mentioned difficulty using it.

Actually hydrogen is not used because it is difficult and inefficient to produce it - this is the primary reason why its not used.

Storage is also an issue because it is a gas and it is very difficult to liquify it.

As for safety, that really depends on how it is stored and how much of it is stored. It wouldn't be any less safe than a gas tank.

Its a free world. You can do whatever you want. I am just letting you know that your thougts are misguided. Science speaks for itself and so does math.

Last edited by sirex; 03-09-2011 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:17 PM   #38
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http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/p.../hydrogen.html
"Other people think we won't run out in this century. I tend to the latter view considering that the oil sands in Alberta, Canada are being rapidly developed, produce oil profitably sellable at $12 per barrel and have resources greater than Saudi Arabia."
we mine it,refine it,pipe it to the yanks and they sell it back to us.whata fckn joke.
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Old 03-10-2011, 01:34 AM   #39
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aint that the truth. **** alberta. canada wide should be half the price of gas and the states should be at $5+ a gallon.
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:13 AM   #40
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Save the $500, spend a bit more and get dual fuel conversion...Propane, CNG...
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:44 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitter527 View Post
http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/p.../hydrogen.html
"Other people think we won't run out in this century. I tend to the latter view considering that the oil sands in Alberta, Canada are being rapidly developed, produce oil profitably sellable at $12 per barrel and have resources greater than Saudi Arabia."
we mine it,refine it,pipe it to the yanks and they sell it back to us.whata fckn joke.
My understanding is that we still don't have the technology to make an "energy profit" producing oil from the oil sands. That is, economics notwithstanding, it costs more energy to extract a given unit of petroleum from the oil sands than is provided by that extracted unit. The only reason development blew up out there is because the cost of oil rose so high it was economically profitable to do it anyway.

I don't know about this 'profitably sellable at $12/barrel' claim above. Presumably dude from Stanford knows better than me...
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:37 PM   #42
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Quote:
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My understanding is that we still don't have the technology to make an "energy profit" producing oil from the oil sands. That is, economics notwithstanding, it costs more energy to extract a given unit of petroleum from the oil sands than is provided by that extracted unit. The only reason development blew up out there is because the cost of oil rose so high it was economically profitable to do it anyway.

I don't know about this 'profitably sellable at $12/barrel' claim above. Presumably dude from Stanford knows better than me...
No

oil sands efficient is 2:1

For every 2 barrels of oil that oil sands makes, it consumes 1. It is NOT efficient. However, you get a 2:1 return... And it is improving daily.
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:49 PM   #43
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First thing i think of when people talk about the oil sands is the oil sand refinery in the game Dune (or the movie for that matter). I heard that they are not fully going through with it as it may be harmful to the environment along with other reason.
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Old 03-10-2011, 06:24 PM   #44
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"The returns on extracting oil from tar sands is approximately 3 barrels of oil for every 2 consumed. This is an EROEI of about 1.5. There are also extreme environmental costs in water pollution and land destruction. And that is only taking current production into account, where the easiest resources are the first mined. This suggests that the Alberta tar sands can fuel the world for less than 5 years, even if you are prepared to pay the vast environmental costs."

"EROEIs vary greatly according to assumptions. For instance, oil sands would probably come out much worse if site preparation and restoration (if even possible) and externalised pollution by end users were factored in."

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:41 PM   #45
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well cbc said 2:1 so Im going by that figure.

and yes, enviromental costs are very high.

but in the name of profit... its okay.
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