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Old 02-08-2011, 02:14 PM   #46
BigD
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Originally Posted by SickFinga View Post
OK, what's not M on 850CSi?
Or by the same logic, US E36 M3.
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Old 02-08-2011, 02:15 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by craz azn View Post
Interesting... because every single Euro numbered 45 M3s I've seen all had the floating rotors. Another coincidence then?
What you saw is irrelevant, facts is what we are looking at

Euro 3.0l
http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E3...ke_brake_disc/

Euro 3.2l
http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E3...ke_brake_disc/

Look at the part number. When 3.2l came out, regular rotors were discontinued.
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Old 02-08-2011, 02:17 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by SickFinga View Post
OK, what's not M on 850CSi?
No idea. Never seen one in person. But the fact that it could have been a bit wilder in the motor department would have helped (look at the M8, what it could have been, even half that!). Hunking out the displacement and calling it an S series motor? Ha. Sounds like E36 M3 US spec all over again... so we are just talking in circles
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Old 02-08-2011, 02:19 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by craz azn View Post
No idea. Never seen one in person. But the fact that it could have been a bit wilder in the motor department would have helped (look at the M8, what it could have been, even half that!). Hunking out the displacement and calling it an S series motor? Ha. Sounds like E36 M3 US spec all over again... so we are just talking in circles
No, just using your own logic to show that both the 850CSi and US E36 M3 are M cars (M spec engines, suspension, steering, brakes, etc - disregarding the actual definition, that they're MADE by M).

You're simply choosing to define what is and isn't an M car by what you respect. If we go by that definition, then the M1 and E30 M3 are not real M cars because >>I<< think they're slow shitboxes.
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Old 02-08-2011, 02:27 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by BigD View Post
No, just using your own logic to show that both the 850CSi and US E36 M3 are M cars (M spec engines, suspension, steering, brakes, etc - disregarding the actual definition, that they're MADE by M).

You're simply choosing to define what is and isn't an M car by what you respect. If we go by that definition, then the M1 and E30 M3 are not real M cars because >>I<< think they're slow shitboxes.
Actually... not even made by M, its not even a 'handbuilt' car as the original cars were. Its just popped together on the same production line like all the other cars were at the time. But then that opens another can of worms saying all M cars since are not really M... so I'll stop there.
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Old 02-08-2011, 02:33 PM   #51
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Actually... not even made by M, its not even a 'handbuilt' car as the original cars were. Its just popped together on the same production line like all the other cars were at the time. But then that opens another can of worms saying all M cars since are not really M... so I'll stop there.
Again, more semantics. Cars that leave the M factory, with their WBS VIN, are M cars. The fact that you feel they must be assembled by hand, in the nude, with mood lighting and Barry White singing in the background, is irrelevant. It simply means you don't hang off its nuts, it does not make them any more or less "M cars". Again, if we go by that then we must strike the E30 M3 off the list, which I dislike and is slower than a modern Camry (while the US E36 M3 will hold its own against any modern sport sedan/coupe).
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Old 02-08-2011, 02:55 PM   #52
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Faster defintely not on a race track ive been going for awhile and i consider myself an ok driver but those e30 m3s pass me like im parked. In the straights its almost even. I go to shanonville and mosport. i checked out their cars in the pit lanes and they were stock engines
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:00 PM   #53
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Faster defintely not on a race track ive been going for awhile and i consider myself an ok driver but those e30 m3s pass me like im parked. In the straights its almost even. I go to shanonville and mosport. i checked out their cars in the pit lanes and they were stock engines
Either you drove with heavily modified, track prepped E30s, your E36 is in serious disrepair or you badly over-estimate your abilities. A factory stock E36 M3 will run circles around any E30 M3 resembling stock form. If you wish to submit anecdotal evidence as proof, then the Chevy Cobalt is as fast as the R35 GTR in the corners, since I was able to keep pace with one in my rental at Tremblant.
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:09 PM   #54
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Again, more semantics. Cars that leave the M factory, with their WBS VIN, are M cars. The fact that you feel they must be assembled by hand, in the nude, with mood lighting and Barry White singing in the background, is irrelevant. It simply means you don't hang off its nuts, it does not make them any more or less "M cars". Again, if we go by that then we must strike the E30 M3 off the list, which I dislike and is slower than a modern Camry (while the US E36 M3 will hold its own against any modern sport sedan/coupe).
That's too bad if that's what you believe. I guess if BMW sugarcoated my car as it sits with a WBS vin, it would be without a doubt an 'M' car? That's disappointing, because it too is slower than a Camry (even though that's not its target goal, or never was for any BMW, 20+ years ago).

As for putting words in my mouth, you don't have to broadcast my so called fantasies here online D



Quote:
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Either you drove with heavily modified, track prepped E30s, your E36 is in serious disrepair or you badly over-estimate your abilities. A factory stock E36 M3 will run circles around any E30 M3 resembling stock form.
+1.
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:13 PM   #55
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Ive owned my E36 M3 for about 4 years now and i must admit i regret buying it. Ive always loved M cars especially the E30 M3 but could never afford one so I cheaped out and bought the E36 M3. If i kept my money i could have bought a real M car like the E30 one :p thats my 2 cents. For now ima keep driving mine i just hate its like owning a honda civic how many of them there are.
Show us your M3
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:16 PM   #56
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That's too bad if that's what you believe. I guess if BMW sugarcoated my car as it sits with a WBS vin, it would be without a doubt an 'M' car? That's disappointing, because it too is slower than a Camry (even though that's not its target goal, or never was for any BMW, 20+ years ago).

As for putting words in my mouth, you don't have to broadcast my so called fantasies here online D

I'm just pointing out that you're trying to force your personal beliefs on people as the definition. If the car got the WBS VIN, it came from the M factory. Whether or not it tickles your or me fancy, does not change the fact that it's an "M car". Putting every Euro E36 M3 bit into a 328 will not make it an M car, although by your definition it does (your laundry list of engine, steering, brakes etc).
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:42 PM   #57
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Hydraulic lifters in M50, M52 M54 will be "walking" all over the place at 7000rpm and will self collapse at around 7500rpm. Thats why BMW put a safe RMP limit on engines equipped with hydraulic lifters(6500rpm for most cars and 6800rpm for few others)
So I guess all the people running close to or over 8k on a stock M52 head with stock lifters must be lying? That with boost even (which is even harder on them). BMWSOB is running till 8300 rpm, bone stock M52 head.

There is no reason for the lifters to "walk"

My friends 24V VR6T that I tuned is running a bone stock head, stock limiter is around 6800 RPM, we're running 8200 rpm limit with 25psi being pushed into the cyl. He's been reving that high for over 4 years now.

Again, you just have no idea what you're talking about.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:05 PM   #58
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Seems like you were adding to it. Not very grown up of you.



I don't see how the e46s was a fail, it's high production numbers gave more market share to BMW and obviously it was a success sales wise, not to mention how many years straight the s54 won awards.

Terry & BigD were joking around more than anything, but you seem to be taking it personal?
Once again Trev you amaze me how you will pick apart something and break it up into peices to change it, anyway that you so what ever.

I never said terry and Big D were doing anything wrong, well Terry has issues with a couple members, and is showing it in Steve's motor swap thread.

What I said was a general statement after reading many threads lately and the serious lack of respectful discussion on the board overall came out in my post.

I never said I don't like or hate the E46, its got its pro's and con's, just like anyother BMW. I said what I did cause too many people throw stones when standing in glass houses about other cars when really, theirs is no better in others eyes.

I don't get why we all can't enjoy each others rides and project and be respectful and not bash or take jabs, its makes our group look childish and imature, its nothing I have taken personal in anything anyone has said, and hope you didn't take what I said personal either.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:26 PM   #59
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Richie, noone in this thread has ever said that their car is better then someone elses, until you said it. Relax.

Only reason why I think US E36 M3 is not a real M car, is because BMW has taken off SO MANY things away from it(Absolutely different motor(based cheaply on M50 and later on M52, which still used hydraulic lifters, thus making it impossible to rev the car any higher then 6900rpm, which takes away the M feeling of a high revving car ) 6 speed, front floating disk breaks and a few other) that they developed FOR it and gave it to north america. While the rest of the world enjoyed the true M3 in all its form , the way BMW has designed it to be. We, over here had to use whats given to us, many liked it, many didnt.


I also dont understand why you think E46 was a fail. It was actually a great success for BMW. It became stronger, recieved much more rigid chassis, faster and overall better improvement of its predecessor.

booth of my bmw builds have hydralic lifters (M42 E30 and M50 E36) and redline at 7100, and get driven at the redline at autox's, and there has been no damage to the lifters.

The euro engine is a monster, no argument there, the six speed is great to, but it was plauged with wear issues, and high maintance costs of the euro motor, along with vanos and lifter issues make it fragile in my opion, which lead to heavy cost to maintain.

The reason the "bean counters" decided not to bring the euro car to north america, and send a "de tuned" version that cost less, was that they did not feel the american market would embrase a car with such high initall cost and high maintance costs. In europe they had to release the car at a higher standard to compete with other cars of the same caliber, in North america what they sent was still above the offering of other manufacturers at a similar cost and the car was a hit because of it.

The M5 was the first M car, The E30 M3 was the one who made the badge a Legend, and the E36 M3 gave a higer level of performance with high sales number to lock things down for BMW.

Don't get me wrong, the E46 isn't a bad or ugly car, but it not a huge jump forward from the E36, other then they released the S54 into this car, which just like E36 motors are swaped into E30's the S54 motor is swapped into E36 cars. The E46 has structural issues in the rear end, just like the E36, maybe a bit more of an issue. Its not a totally new car like the e36 was, or the E9x cars were, but rather a heavy redo of the E36.

On a nother note, I don't really get people's opion that the quality of the interiour was any better between the e30/E36/E46. they all had their issues, and depending on what interiour package you get makes a huge difference.

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Old 02-08-2011, 04:29 PM   #60
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wooow everyone take it easy please
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