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Old 01-14-2011, 05:29 PM   #1
ughson
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questions on piggyback fuel controller...

anyone on here know what type of piggypack systems are out there for the m20?
whats your feelings on which one is the best for this application and would it be possible for a Safc neo system from apexi to be used?
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:43 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ughson View Post
anyone on here know what type of piggypack systems are out there for the m20?
whats your feelings on which one is the best for this application and would it be possible for a Safc neo system from apexi to be used?
Why do you want to use one? Are you turbocharging?
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:44 PM   #3
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yeah i want to trying to price everything out
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:29 PM   #4
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The best one for the m20 is none. Go full standalone or a MarkD tune or go home.
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:56 PM   #5
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Full standalone is a nice luxury, but after researching I decided it would be too problematic and time consuming. I drive all year and have trips up to 1500km 3 times a year. So no standalone.

I have a miller maf conversion with the 19lb injector chip. It's hands down the best mod I've ever seen for the m20 under $300 (+ the cost of the injectors).

I may get the miller war chip as then I could mess with the car on the weekend and if I don't like the tune I can flick a switch and it's back to factory tune so I can get to work monday.

To each his own, my opinion might be different if I was rich and had multiple cars and a garage.
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Old 01-15-2011, 01:46 PM   #6
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I think the OP is wanting to boost his car. If that's the case I think that standalone is the best way to go. The DIYPNP kits from DIYAutotune are affordable and give you lots of versatility when it comes to tuning.

And in terms of it being problematic and time consuming, that's the beauty of the PNP kits, if you really wanted to you could leave the AFM on your car and just install a second intake temp sensor somewhere (remove the throttle body heating block and install it there) and splice the wires into the AFM connector. You mount both units in your glove box, when you want to run the stand alone you just attach the wiring harness to the standalone unit and unplug the AFM, and when you want to go back to stock just swap the wiring harness back to the motronic box, unplug the second IAT and hook the AFM back up. However once you get it tuned properly you shouldn't need to go back to stock ever and you can get rid of the AFM
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Old 01-15-2011, 02:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfiniteDice View Post
Full standalone is a nice luxury, but after researching I decided it would be too problematic and time consuming. I drive all year and have trips up to 1500km 3 times a year. So no standalone.

I have a miller maf conversion with the 19lb injector chip. It's hands down the best mod I've ever seen for the m20 under $300 (+ the cost of the injectors).

I may get the miller war chip as then I could mess with the car on the weekend and if I don't like the tune I can flick a switch and it's back to factory tune so I can get to work monday.

To each his own, my opinion might be different if I was rich and had multiple cars and a garage.
A standalone is as good as the installer/tuner. So shitty install/wiring/tuning = unreliable standalone. For the m20 there are now very good pnp standalone options and TONS of calibration files to get you going fast. Yes it does take time but from what i hear so does the miller maf conversion..it's not exactly pnp either.

I've taken my car on long trips, never thought twice about it!
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Old 01-15-2011, 09:51 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by e30_kid89 View Post
A standalone is as good as the installer/tuner. So shitty install/wiring/tuning = unreliable standalone.
Couldn't agree with you more e30_kid
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:16 PM   #9
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^^^ as far as a standalone being as good as the tuner, and seeing how this would be my first time doing this, I would be playing with the fuel maps all year round as this is still my dd. In canada you deal with a wide range of conditions therefore a wide range load types making the setup a true pain in the ass. Thats why I would perfer a piggyback fuel controller as modifying all the stock maps would be much easier. But if there are no true piggyback controllers for the m20 then standalone does seem like the best option.
Any thoughts on the Vipec v44 standalone? I know that it cant do 6 sequential injections but seems like it would do the job well and i may be able to get a great price on it.
Also ms1v3 how does that perform as i know it doesnt have as many features as most standalones? anyone here have experience with it?
A ms1v3 setup for a turbo'd rotary motor will i be able to use that? as in do I have to make any changes to the actual circuit board.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:56 PM   #10
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http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/d...kit-p-385.html

Like e30_kid said there are plenty of maps available, some of which are probably pretty close to the stock maps. DIYAUTOTUNE even provides start up maps in their DIY install write up for the E30 http://www.diyautotune.com/diypnp/ap...m20b25-mt.html
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Old 01-16-2011, 02:27 PM   #11
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Just because it gets cold here doesn't change the tune parameters in the winter. It just means you have to tune to account for a wider range of coolant and air temperatures. The warmup maps take care of coolant, and tuning for cooler air is just about the easiest thing ever.

My summer car is sitting in the garage and I know it will fire up like a factory car right now at -10C. I did all the tuning myself by reading forums, Corky Bell's books, Forced Induction Performance Tuning by A. Graham Bell and Performance Fuel Injection Systems by Matt Cramer.

Why pay to have something done when you can learn it instead?

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Old 01-16-2011, 02:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ughson View Post
^^^ as far as a standalone being as good as the tuner, and seeing how this would be my first time doing this, I would be playing with the fuel maps all year round as this is still my dd. In canada you deal with a wide range of conditions therefore a wide range load types making the setup a true pain in the ass. Thats why I would perfer a piggyback fuel controller as modifying all the stock maps would be much easier. But if there are no true piggyback controllers for the m20 then standalone does seem like the best option.
Any thoughts on the Vipec v44 standalone? I know that it cant do 6 sequential injections but seems like it would do the job well and i may be able to get a great price on it.
Also ms1v3 how does that perform as i know it doesnt have as many features as most standalones? anyone here have experience with it?
A ms1v3 setup for a turbo'd rotary motor will i be able to use that? as in do I have to make any changes to the actual circuit board.
a Vipec imo is overkill for a m20, and probably not the most user-friendly if this your first go at it with a standalone. A DIYPNP from diyautotune which is essentially an ms2 is more than enough for a m20 plus there is an abundance of support.

Like everlast has said tuning for cold starts is not difficult if you have an understanding of how the ems works and common sense. Only thing is it takes time, you only get a few shots a day at starting a stone cold motor in the cold weather!
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Old 01-16-2011, 04:44 PM   #13
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yeah I def wanted to learn this but didnt want to try on a dd but w/e. i will see if I can get everything togethor at an affordable price... maybe run a NA build with Itb's then though

will ms1v3 cut it for the m20? is paying 500 for it brand new a good price in this area?
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:07 PM   #14
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Forget the ITBs. Way to much aggravation for what it's worth on these.
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:15 PM   #15
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Yeah, ITB sound cool, that's it. For the price and setup woes, you could turbo.

This is what I'd recommend:

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/d...kit-p-385.html

Assemble it, test it, then on a weekend you can plunk it in and try your hand and understanding the tuning elements, etc. At the end of the day, you can pull the MS unit and plug in your factory ECU again, drive it for the week.

Once you get the DIYPNP box working to your satisfaction, you can leave it in longer and DD it. Then, you can remove the airbox restriction, and start doing small mods, retuning to gain power with each mod.

Note that you'll also need a wideband O2 sensor kit too to really make the most of anything.
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