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Old 12-16-2010, 02:10 PM   #16
sirex
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Go work for the "good corporations" that have your best interests at heart.
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Old 12-16-2010, 02:13 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by craigIS View Post
Japan has no unions, look at the products that come from that country. Cars for example. Japs have reliable cars, while our domestic cars were absolute shite. That is until people got nearer to losing their jobs.

Unions allow the wrong people to keep their job. The people who know how to work, and work well, don't need unions. If you do you job right, and don't eff around, then there won't be a reason to let you go. If there is any wrong doing on the companies part, that's what the Labour Board is for.

You just need to do your job correctly, and not call in all the time, and you will do alright.

Whats your argument for Germany then? Germany has the most powerful unions in the world. And their products are outstanding. They out source alot too, but still have a stable economy and good jobs.

Japan system operates on honor and alot of different cultural values that I dont think you understand and values that I dont understand.

Have you ever used the labour board? Not the best thing to settle issues.

Also a misconception about unions letting shitty employees stick around... First of all, MANAGEMNET is in charge of hiring those shitty employees in the first place.

Un-motivated employees, Shitty employees, are the fault of the EMPLOYER not the union. You have these corporations that are SHITTING on their employees and getting away with it.
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Old 12-16-2010, 02:16 PM   #18
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I have laws that protect me. I don't need to pay some dude to live the rich life and take my money and do nothing, that's why I pay taxes.

Unions are good when industry is new and starting and people need protection. Here, they kill industry with greed.

Youre a tool. Union members/stewards, dont live the rich life.

As for doing nothing, running around from work site to work site and sticking up for employees rights and breach of contract... is I guess doing nothing??

Sounds like youre jealous of unions. LAullllll
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Old 12-16-2010, 03:15 PM   #19
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There was a time for Unions and I think that time has passed. There are now strict laws in place that make mistreating employees illegal.......so with workers now protected by law where does the union come in? Negotiating undeserved salaries for uneducated unskilled workers?
I have worked a number of automotive jobs in my life and it's absolitely sickening the things i've seen. Top example is the cryselr plant in windsor paying line workers over $34 an our to start and some do as little as pushing a single button. I have also worked for a non unionized honda plant where similar jobs paid $17 an hour.
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Old 12-16-2010, 03:43 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by sirex View Post
Youre a tool. Union members/stewards, dont live the rich life.

As for doing nothing, running around from work site to work site and sticking up for employees rights and breach of contract... is I guess doing nothing??

Sounds like youre jealous of unions. LAullllll
He is not talking about the members, he is talking about your union bosses.

Union are in place to protect workers. However, they do breed laziness. Like when the employees for GM got let go and they were crying about how they had no were else to work and no one would hire them. That is because they were uneducated and didn't know how to do anything but bolt the same 5 bolts to a car. Maybe during those 10+ years working for the plant, they could have done something to better themselves and improve theirs skills like the rest of us do. Maybe to learn how to screw in 6 screws or something, but they didn't cuz they had that cushy $30+ hourly wage and nice pension to look forward to. Guess what, your job didn't last forever and you didn't plan for that. Suck it up, its your own fault.
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Old 12-16-2010, 03:49 PM   #21
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Here's another example. I own a moderately successful business that has unionized employees. Times are getting tough with the recession and need to keep costs low in order to turn a profit. Your union comes to me and says they want a raise in their new collective agreement. I say I can't afford to do that. Employees go on strike. I close down my business. Headline in the paper "poor employees lose job, have no where to go" BS, what about the company that just went under because employees wouldn't take a cut or no raise? Why have sympathy for thos employees? They basically did it to themselves.
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:13 PM   #22
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union bosses, its like politicians : corrupt!?

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The real story behind the McGuinty wage freeze

Starting this year, the Premier of Ontario is asking one million provincial public workers to accept a two-year wage freeze. He says the freeze will protect services and save jobs. He says it will help pay down the deficit. He says provincial workers have had pay raises for too long.

The real story is very different. Here’s what you need to know:

The wage freeze is not a “freeze”

A wage “freeze” sounds like your family’s income stays the same. It doesn’t. A freeze means your wages are cut by the rate of inflation. Right now, that means a freeze would cost you two per cent of your pay in year one; it would cost you four per cent in year two.

This is not spare change. If you make $40,000 a year, a four per cent cut is $1,600. And even when the freeze ends, that amount will still be missing from your pay in the years ahead. You could be playing catch-up for a long, long time.

The wage freeze is not fair

Under McGuinty’s plan, a group home worker earning $25,000 a year will pay $1,000 a year to fight the deficit. The investment banker who made $12 million last year won’t pay one penny extra.

It’s simply not fair.

Another way it’s not fair? The wage freeze hits women hardest. For every dollar a man makes in Ontario, a woman makes 85 cents. Women make up more than 60 per cent of public employees (it’s 82 per cent in health care and social services). The wage freeze will push down average women’s wages in every Ontario community.

Ontario’s budget deficit was caused by a global recession, not your wages. It’s not fair to make public workers be the only ones who pay.

Public sector raises have trailed the private sector
Despite what the Premier says, your pay is not going up too fast.

Public sector wages have risen lately, but only after years of losses. Public sector wages (after inflation) dropped sharply in the 1990s. Wages did recover, but it took 16 years. The typical public worker earned the same pay in 2008 as she did in 1992. Public sector wage settlements since 1992 are four per cent behind those in the private sector.

YOUR money will pay for corporate tax cuts

If the money the government saved from the wage freeze were going to jobs, or public services, or even the deficit, that would be one thing. But it’s not.

Every single dollar OPSEU members give up through the wage freeze will go to the profits of companies like the Royal Bank of Canada, Rogers, and Imperial Oil.

The government will save $1.8 billion a year when the wage freeze is fully phased in. Big companies will rake in $2.4 billion a year from Corporate Income Tax cuts alone.

Why should a children’s aid worker, or a correctional officer, or a college admissions clerk pour money into a bucket with a hole in it? Why should she pay to line the pockets of bank executives and phone company CEOs? Answer: she shouldn’t.


Corporate tax cuts won’t create jobs

Corporations like to say that tax cuts create investment and jobs. But after 10 years of corporate tax cuts in Ontario, the rate of investment has actually gone down.

Our corporate taxes are low already, as the government admits. A 2010 study by the KPMG consulting firm shows that Ontario has much lower business taxes than the United States and our key competitors. And, KPMG says, taxes only account for up to 14 per cent of investment location decisions. That means things like an educated workforce and public healthcare play a key role in bringing jobs to Ontario.

In its 2010 budget, the government of Canada calculated how much “bang for the buck” it would get from different expenditures. Every dollar in corporate income tax cuts would boost the economy by 30 cents, the government said. Every dollar spent on “other spending measures” (public services) would boost the economy by $1.40.

In other words, the best investment for Ontario right now is public services.

Corporate tax cuts hurt Ontario
If corporate tax cuts don’t create jobs, what exactly do they do for Ontario? Here’s what they do: They reduce funding for health care and other vital services. They cut wages and jobs for working people. And they increase the provincial debt.

It really is that simple. Corporate tax cuts hurt Ontario.

It’s time corporations paid their share
The people of Ontario don’t support corporate tax cuts. Not now. In an August poll of 1,000 Ontarians by the Angus Reid polling company, a whopping 81 per cent said they support higher corporate taxes to pay down the deficit.

For decades, the people of Ontario have worked hard to make corporations rich. Now it’s time for corporations to do their part for the province.

”We all know Ontario today faces many challenges, and OPSEU members are always ready to talk about ways to protect public services and save jobs,” says OPSEU President Warren (Smokey) Thomas. “But there’s just no reason why (for example) lab technologists or workplace safety inspectors should donate part of their wages to pad corporate profits and boost CEO salaries. If the McGuinty government is serious about protecting public services, saving jobs, and paying down the deficit, it should do the smart thing and cancel the corporate tax cuts. That’s our message to the Premier, his ministers, and every MPP.”

This document was prepared by Ontario unions working together and made possible by the in-depth research and analysis of Liam McCarthy (PSAC), Toby Sanger (CUPE), Jim Stanford (CAW), and Erin Weir (USW).


http://www.opseu.org/insolidarity/in...winter2010.htm
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:16 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by sirex View Post
Youre a tool. Union members/stewards, dont live the rich life.

As for doing nothing, running around from work site to work site and sticking up for employees rights and breach of contract... is I guess doing nothing??

Sounds like youre jealous of unions. LAullllll
Jealous?? Far from. They are not needed in Canada. And any Right you have violated you can refuse the work, go to the labor board and have a investigation started.

I don't need to pay someone 20-$40 a pay cheque to do that for me.
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:52 PM   #24
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You guys who talk about running to labour board have no idea of the process involved.
When you look at the union, you constantly talk about workers like the ones at chrysler making $35 plus an hour, but the truth is that the union is in alot of places where the employees earn under 12 dollars an hour like the hotel and other service industries.
Yes, some workers have abused the fact that the union is there to support them but if it wasn't for poor management there would probably not have been a union in the first place.
The union does not like to see lazy members in their union as it feeds the stereotype that some missinformed people have of their other hard working members. unfortunetly, life is not all black and white. There are good and bad apples on both sides.

Its funny, but I used to think like alot of you that the union only encourages lazy and unskilled people to keep their jobs. My one sided views where changed when I worked with a company as a manager with unionized employee. I saw managers who conducted themselves in deceiptfull and unsavory practices which only served to make the bond between the union and the employees stronger. The union creates job security and equalty for all their members. If you as a manager learn to treat your employess with a sense of fairness and give them the feeling of equal opportunty, then they will never have the need for a union.

Don't blame the Union for keeping lazy employees around. Manage your business properly and document the actions of the bad apples and there is nothing the union will be able to do to protect them. Stop blaming the union for lack of management skills.
As a manager, I was able to get rid of alot of those kind of workers from my company, despite there being a union present.

Last edited by overlordjd; 12-16-2010 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 12-17-2010, 06:39 AM   #25
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I am talking about cultural differences. Germans have always generally had a strong work ethic, and pride themselves in making a better product, which relates back to a better life style. The unions are there probably for the same reasons ours are supposed to be. The issue here, is that North Americans are lazy, and most are so ignorant, that they let their employers do whatever.

If you have an issue at work, take it to your boss, and tell them that what's happening, or is going to happen isn't right. Go as high up as you need to. I'm not saying to report you employer all the time, you can call the Labour Board and ask for information about the situation, and get back to your boss with it. If that doesn't work, ya report your employer.

My new job has it's issues, and I deal with them myself. Example: the other day I was asked to work over time 5 mins before the end of the day. I said no. My boss said well we need yo to work, so you have to stay. I told him no, I don't have to work more than 8 hours in a row, I have just worked 9 hours, and you can't ask me as I'm about to leave. The boss pressed once more, and I told him that it's the law, that I don't have to work more than 8 hours in a row, unless it has been previously established.

Problem solved.

Employers do things they think they can get away with. When you prove them wrong, they will likely drop the issue.
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:42 AM   #26
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For those who again don't know how Unions work, there are steps to be followed before the union steps in and fights for a worker’s rights.

If there is an issue that arises in the workplace, the worker should first discuss the issue with their immediate supervisor. Sometimes the issue arise as a result of action the immediate supervisor may have initiated.

I there is no resolution or the employee still thinks their rights are being violated they can then talk to their union steward who is also an employee of the company. The union steward should then go along with the worker and present the grievance and its details to the immediate supervisor who will render a decision within a set period of time. ( this again is another opportunity for the supervisor to consult with upper management or any other resource at their disposal)

If The time limit has expired, the union steward should then within another set time period present the grievance to the Plant Manager in writing or company representative who will make a decision in writing within another set time period.

If the decision of the Plant Manager or Company representative is not satisfactory or the time limit has expired, the Union Business Representative(Note this is the first time the Union has officially stepped in) will present the grievance to the General Manager or President who will render a decision within another set time period.

The next step after this if no satisfactory decision is made or the time limit runs out is to go to arbitration. This is where the legal department of the union will be consulted.
Not all workers are strong enough to follow through and defend themselves as others would be. If you are in a non union environment, you would have to deal with the issue yourself which could take a long period of time as indicated in the union procedure all at your own expense.

In this case, all the employees have the same right to representation.

There are no Union contracts out their telling management how to run their business. Managers have rights under any contract and the union does not want to see companies close. No contract can take away any rights you may have by law.(labour laws, human rights and others)

In every part of life there are bad apples who make any group of people look bad.

WOW! that was long.
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Old 12-17-2010, 10:08 AM   #27
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For those who again don't know how Unions work, there are steps to be followed before the union steps in and fights for a worker’s rights.

If there is an issue that arises in the workplace, the worker should first discuss the issue with their immediate supervisor. Sometimes the issue arise as a result of action the immediate supervisor may have initiated.

I there is no resolution or the employee still thinks their rights are being violated they can then talk to their union steward who is also an employee of the company. The union steward should then go along with the worker and present the grievance and its details to the immediate supervisor who will render a decision within a set period of time. ( this again is another opportunity for the supervisor to consult with upper management or any other resource at their disposal)

If The time limit has expired, the union steward should then within another set time period present the grievance to the Plant Manager in writing or company representative who will make a decision in writing within another set time period.

If the decision of the Plant Manager or Company representative is not satisfactory or the time limit has expired, the Union Business Representative(Note this is the first time the Union has officially stepped in) will present the grievance to the General Manager or President who will render a decision within another set time period.

The next step after this if no satisfactory decision is made or the time limit runs out is to go to arbitration. This is where the legal department of the union will be consulted.
Not all workers are strong enough to follow through and defend themselves as others would be. If you are in a non union environment, you would have to deal with the issue yourself which could take a long period of time as indicated in the union procedure all at your own expense.

In this case, all the employees have the same right to representation.

There are no Union contracts out their telling management how to run their business. Managers have rights under any contract and the union does not want to see companies close. No contract can take away any rights you may have by law.(labour laws, human rights and others)

In every part of life there are bad apples who make any group of people look bad.

WOW! that was long.
Scenario: I got injured at work, employer didn't file wsib lots of bullshit arised. I showed up late 5 minutes while on modified duties in the office... I got written up I was refused a union rep, I was denied a phonecall and I was intimidated.. Called my ba at the union he called the federation of labour and gave them my contact info and I have a paralegal representing me thru my recovery if need be there is a lawyer avaliable all of this is paid by my union! 35 bucks a month is cheap insurance I have been in the union 2 years and they have allways been there! Union ftw!
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