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Old 12-15-2010, 06:32 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tg07lq View Post
so with only having basic liability ( for when i hit someone) will my insurance still have to pay to fix my car should someone hit me? or will their insurance pay to fix it?
just so long as someone pays to fix my car! haha
Liability is for when you hit someone, injure them, and they sue you. I believe it only covers so much though.

As far as I remember, generally your insurance pays to repair your car. Each party involved in a collision, will go through their own insurance company most of the time.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 12-15-2010, 11:53 AM   #17
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Guys, whats so difficult to understand that Ontario has no fault insurance, and how many of you have cars and dont realize how this works, hilarious.

How does it work:

If you get into an accident and your car is damaged, you do not go to the person who hit your car and ask their insurance for money, EVEN if they are at fault. You go to YOUR insurance company and they fix it for you.

If you are 100% at fault, or 0% at fault, your claim is made TO YOUR insurance company.

The only time someone elses insurance will give you money is if you SUE the other driver. If you sue the other driver who was found at fault, then THEIR insurance will pay you money depending on what happened.

The only time your insurance will pay somoene else money is if they sue you, and they win.

Liability is what covers you if you get sued because if you are found liable for someone elses injuries you got to pay.

Deductible is paid regardless of who is at fault or not. Deductible has nothing to do with fault, or no fault. Dedcutibe is what YOU set up with the insurance compnay to lower or increase your premiums.

someone with a 0$ deductive will pay HIGHER premiums then someone with a 1000$ deductible.

This also means if you get into an accident and damage is 5000$ to your vehicle, you will have to pay the first 1000$, and 0$ if your deductble is 0.


The only time Fault or Not at fault matters is:
If you are being sued.
If you are being charged.
If your insurance gives you "strikes" or "free claims." Its better to make a claim when you are not at fault, then when you are at fault. Because if you are found at fault for an accident, there is a good chance that your premiums will go up. (but if you are at fault, you will probably get a nice charge from the officer as well if its a bad one)

However, if you are not at fault, and you make a claim anyway, there is a chance your premium will probably go up anyway as well. For example if you have a fender bender and no cops come.. You report the incident, then report the claim and insurance will pay you out. But how many of these do u want on your record? Probably not that many.

so at the end of the day, youre damned if you do, damned if you dont..


As for the OP if there was no officer at the scene to charge you, then there was "no fault." go to the collission report office, tell them what happened and make a claim. Or, make a claim without reporting it. I think you can do that as well. Im not sure how that part of the process works.
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Old 12-15-2010, 12:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
Deductible is paid regardless of who is at fault or not. Deductible has nothing to do with fault, or no fault. Dedcutibe is what YOU set up with the insurance compnay to lower or increase your premiums.

someone with a 0$ deductive will pay HIGHER premiums then someone with a 1000$ deductible.

This also means if you get into an accident and damage is 5000$ to your vehicle, you will have to pay the first 1000$, and 0$ if your deductble is 0.
hmmm...really? i thought deductible is only paid when you are at fault or the other driver isn't insured, drives off etc. because earlier this year i was involved in a hit and run...at first i was told i would need to pay the deductible because the other party drove off but then got a phone call a few days later that it got waved because supposedly they caught the guy who hit me. how would that work then? why would my deductible get waved?
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Old 12-15-2010, 12:04 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by pawcio View Post
hmmm...really? i thought deductible is only paid when you are at fault or the other driver isn't insured, drives off etc. because earlier this year i was involved in a hit and run...at first i was told i would need to pay the deductible because the other party drove off but then got a phone call a few days later that it got waved because supposedly they caught the guy who hit me. how would that work then? why would my deductible get waved?
Sorry I made some updates to what I wrote and I dont know if I covrered it.

This has to do with your own insurance and how its set up and how they handle it.

For example, we have a 300$ deductible. Our car got broken into the window cost 150$ to repair and the stereo was another 200$. So really making the claim would be useless for us, we would only get 50$, and on top of that, it would count as a claim.

If the other driver IS not insured, this has Nothing to do with your insurance. It doens't matter. the only time it matters is if he is found liable for injuries to you and you sue him. If you sue him and he has no insurance, he will have to pay you out from his cash/networth/estate. If he cant afford to pay you he claims bankruptcy.

However, I am mixed up about when it comes to injuries. Because I know if you are injured your insurance will cover you, however, Im not sure at which point the person you sue has to pay you or how. for example lets say youre rear ended and the driver who rear ended you is found at fault.

You sue the driver that rear ended you because your back is fuked up. So Im not sure if its YOUR insurnace that will pay you a lump sum/w.e it is you need (if u cant work and shit) or, if its up to the other insurance company to pay you.

If someone can elaborate on that be great
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Old 12-15-2010, 12:44 PM   #20
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no comments on insurance, sorry..I just put this in another snow thread:

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Old 12-15-2010, 12:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
Deductible is paid regardless of who is at fault or not. Deductible has nothing to do with fault, or no fault. Dedcutibe is what YOU set up with the insurance compnay to lower or increase your premiums.

someone with a 0$ deductive will pay HIGHER premiums then someone with a 1000$ deductible.

This also means if you get into an accident and damage is 5000$ to your vehicle, you will have to pay the first 1000$, and 0$ if your deductble is 0.
This is totally incorrect. If you are in an accident, and you are NOT at fault, you do NOT pay your deductible ... the other guy's company pays it. This is fact, it happened to me, period.
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Old 12-15-2010, 12:57 PM   #22
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Liability is for when you hit someone, injure them, and they sue you. I believe it only covers so much though.
Your liability coverage has 2 sections, Bodily Injury (BI) and Property Damage (PD). Some companies will call PD: "Third Party Property Damage". (in case you are looking for it on your own policy). The titles of the coverage are pretty self explanatory as to what they cover. But we{people in the industry} rarely discuss liability as a 2 part coverage, so most people aren't aware it's not just for injuries. If you lost control of your car and drove it through a wall of someones house, your liability PD section would pay for the damages.

When you say, "I believe it{liability} only covers so much..." I can infer 2 things; You might be thinking of accident benefits OR, With liability what is limited is what you are allowed to sue for; The injury has to meet certain criteria.

Your liability will cover up to the limit purchased - usually $1 million, though my office recommends $2 milllion. That being said, your property damage can be limited if a lawsuit for both BI & PD are a part of the same accident. In that case your BI gets 90% of the liability limit, the PD gets 10%

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigIS View Post
As far as I remember, generally your insurance pays to repair your car. Each party involved in a collision, will go through their own insurance company most of the time.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
You are right except replace, "most of the time" with, 100% of the time. That is with respect to repairs for the vehicles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tg07lq View Post
so with only having basic liability (for when i hit someone) will my insurance still have to pay to fix my car should someone hit me? or will their insurance pay to fix it?
just so long as someone pays to fix my car! haha
OYE! This ended up being a LOT longer then I anticipated, however a short answer doesn't really teach anything, so please, bear with me.... if you don't want to learn something scroll down to "the short answer".

As CraigIS astutely pointed out, your own company is responsible to pay for the damage to your car, regardless of who was at fault. What they pay and how much, is a bit complicated. It all depends on the scenario, the coverages you've purchased, and whether the person you hit/hit you sticks around, or is even insured.

There are 2 different coverages on every policy, even if it is liability only, that pertain to this. Direct Compensation Property Damage (DCPD) and Uninsured Automobile (UA).

I think the best way to explain is to illustrate with scenarios as to how these coverage apply:
FYI, for those not familiar with the legal speak, 'third party' is the other involved driver.
A1) The third party remains to exchange valid information. You are 100% 'not at fault'. The damage to your car and rental vehicle are paid for under your DCPD coverage. NO deductible.

B1) The third party takes off & no information is gathered/exchanged. You are 100% 'not at fault'. The damage to your car and rental vehicle are paid for under your collision coverage. You pay the full deductible. If you don't have collision, the damage is not covered by insurance. Further, if you don't have OPCF 20 (loss of use) you don't get a rental car paid for.

C1) The third party has no insurance. If you are 100% 'not at fault'. The damage to your car and rental vehicle are paid for under The UA coverage. You pay the UA deductible of $300. This coverage is limited to $25K. If that isn't sufficient to pay for the damages to your car, you claim the short fall under you collision coverage and you pay the deductible (a portion of it, I believe) there too. If you don't have collision, the short fall beyond $25K is not covered by insurance and you can't sue for it either!. If there is a shortfall and you don't have OPCF 20 (loss of use) you don't get a rental car paid for.
Now, to confuse the issue. This is where the fault determination comes into play. (see how this is loosely related to the original thread? None the less, sorry for the hijack!)
A2) The third party remains to exchange valid information. You are 50% 'at fault'. 1/2 of the damage & rental car is paid under your DCPD. The other 1/2 goes under your collision coverage and you pay 1/2 your collision deductible. If you don't have collision or OPCF 20, the other 1/2 of each is out of your own pocket.

B2) The third party takes off & no information is gathered/exchanged. You are 50% 'at fault'. All of the damage to your car is paid for under your collision coverage. You pay the full collision deductible. If you don't have collision, the damage is not covered by insurance. Further, if you don't have OPCF 20 (loss of use) you don't get a rental car paid for. This is rare as most 50/50 fault determinations are because the stories from the 2 drivers differ, such as both cars making a lane change. If it's a hit and run, there is only 1 side of the story. So, if you say, "he came into my lane", It's his fault. As opposed to both of you saying, "the other guy came into my lane" that would be a 50/50.

C2) The third party has no insurance. If you are 50% 'at fault'. 1/2 The damage to your car is paid for under The UA coverage. You pay the 1/2 UA deductible = $150. This coverage is limited to $12500. The other 1/2 is paid under your collision coverage and you pay the 1/2 of that deductible. If you don't have collision, the short fall beyond $12500 is not covered by insurance and again, you can't sue for it!. If you don't have OPCF 20 (loss of use) you pay for 1/2 the rental car.
The Short Answer:
There are coverages on your policy, even if you only carry liability coverage, that will pay for the damage to your car or at least a portion of it. How much depends on the specific scenario.
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:05 PM   #23
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^^^ that sir is an amazing amount of info...

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Old 12-15-2010, 02:17 PM   #24
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I'm not a car expert, I take a lot from this forum so, I'm happy to contribute with what I do know: insurance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
Guys, whats so difficult to understand that Ontario has no fault insurance, and how many of you have cars and dont realize how this works, hilarious.
I wouldn't feel bad if you (the global 'you') don't grasp it. For the record, The guys who created the system could hardly explain it . I'm not just posting this info off the top of my head, I'd have to be some kind of savant to do that. I've picked the brain of a few people, read wordings, and called a few companies to make sure I'm giving you guys good information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
How does it work:

If you get into an accident and your car is damaged, you do not go to the person who hit your car and ask their insurance for money, EVEN if they are at fault. You go to YOUR insurance company and they fix it for you.

If you are 100% at fault, or 0% at fault, your claim is made TO YOUR insurance company.

The only time someone elses insurance will give you money is if you SUE the other driver. If you sue the other driver who was found at fault, then THEIR insurance will pay you money depending on what happened.

The only time your insurance will pay somoene else money is if they sue you, and they win.

Liability is what covers you if you get sued because if you are found liable for someone elses injuries you got to pay.
All of the above is correct. (are correct?... I love/hate grammar.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
Deductible is paid regardless of who is at fault or not. Deductible has nothing to do with fault, or no fault. Dedcutibe is what YOU set up with the insurance compnay to lower or increase your premiums.

someone with a 0$ deductive will pay HIGHER premiums then someone with a 1000$ deductible.

This also means if you get into an accident and damage is 5000$ to your vehicle, you will have to pay the first 1000$, and 0$ if your deductble is 0.
Your explanation of a deductible is correct, but you don't always have to pay one.

Deductibles are applied to: Collision (CL), comprehensive(CM), DCPD, Uninsured Auto (UA), and Liability settlements. UA and Liability deductibles are set in stone, however you can buy down the liability deductible. (from $30K to $20K). CL and CM deductible can be adjusted to help save some premium dollars. DCPD deductibles are rare, usually only on high value vehicles. The first time I saw one was on a policy for a Z8. It was my first year as a broker. I went to take pictures of it for the company and said "nice car", he threw me the keys , I declined as I didn't have the $2500 to pay the DCPD ded. if I got hit. If I had only known how sweet BMW's drove at the time, I would have had a hard time turning that down. OH hind sight, you are a nagging wench. Where was I? Oh ya.. Also, if you have a high frequency of not at fault claims, the company can request a DCPD deductible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
The only time Fault or Not at fault matters is:
If you are being sued.
If you are being charged.
If your insurance gives you "strikes" or "free claims." Its better to make a claim when you are not at fault, then when you are at fault. Because if you are found at fault for an accident, there is a good chance that your premiums will go up. (but if you are at fault, you will probably get a nice charge from the officer as well if its a bad one)
Fault always matters. If you have more then 2 at fault accidents (over 25% at fault) in a 3 or 6 year span (depends on the company), most standard insurance companies will non-renew you. Claims forgiveness only helps for the first one. 2nd at fault your rate goes up (even if you had forgiveness). 3rd at fault, you get non-renewed and get stuck with a high risk insurer at 3 times the premium. Not-at fault claims do not "use up" your claims forgiveness.

Whether a cop assigns a conviction at the scene has little to no bearing on the fault determination. You can be at fault and not get any tickets. You can be not at fault and get a ticket. The two are un-related for the most part, bar running a red light and a few other exceptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
However, if you are not at fault, and you make a claim anyway, there is a chance your premium will probably go up anyway as well....
I'm glad you touched on this as it is probably the 2nd largest mis-conception with Ontario auto insurance, next to "red cars cost more to insure". It is no more true then the latter. If you are not a fault, the company is legally not allowed to increase your rates for it. The only thing the company can do is request a higher deductible or remove the coverage. so if your car gets broken into frequently, expect a letter requesting a higher comprehensive deductible.

Again, if you are not at fault, THERE IS NO IMPACT ON YOUR PREMIUM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
As for the OP if there was no officer at the scene to charge you, then there was "no fault." go to the collission report office, tell them what happened and make a claim. Or, make a claim without reporting it. I think you can do that as well. Im not sure how that part of the process works.
Fault is determined by a pre-set list of determination rules. If you want an interesting read go and Google "Ontario fault determination rules". Fault has nothing to do with whether a cop was on scene or not.

If you are making a claim through insurance, there MUST MUST MUST be a collision/police report filed. If not, the claim is treated as an at fault, even if it is a vandalism claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
...
This has to do with your own insurance and how its set up and how they handle it.

For example, we have a 300$ deductible. Our car got broken into the window cost 150$ to repair and the stereo was another 200$. So really making the claim would be useless for us, we would only get 50$, and on top of that, it would count as a claim.
I agree for $50 it wasn't really worth it. However, this would not have counted as a "claim" on your record. Comprehensive claims are NOT ratable. End of story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
If the other driver IS not insured, this has Nothing to do with your insurance. It doens't matter. the only time it matters is if he is found liable for injuries to you and you sue him. If you sue him and he has no insurance, he will have to pay you out from his cash/networth/estate. If he cant afford to pay you he claims bankruptcy.
My post earlier in this thread shows how it does matter. I believe there is a fund for situations where the uninsured driver is not able to pay, but the amount of money you receive is peanuts and it takes almost a decade to get it. (this is only a slight exaggeration)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
However, I am mixed up about when it comes to injuries. Because I know if you are injured your insurance will cover you, however, Im not sure at which point the person you sue has to pay you or how. for example lets say youre rear ended and the driver who rear ended you is found at fault.

You sue the driver that rear ended you because your back is fuked up. So Im not sure if its YOUR insurnace that will pay you a lump sum/w.e it is you need (if u cant work and shit) or, if its up to the other insurance company to pay you.

If someone can elaborate on that be great
The injury has to meet certain criteria, extent of injury, how badly it affects your quality of life, future employment, etc...

Your rehabilitation costs and lost wages are covered, up to purchased limits, under your own policy.

The basic policy includes:
income replacement of $400/wk or 70% of gross income
For minor injuries - $3500 medical rehab. only
For non-catastrophic injuries - $50K medical rehab., $36K attendant care
For catastrophic injuries - $1 Mil. Medical rehab., $1 Mil attendant care.

You can purchase additional accident benefits coverage:
non-catastrophic injury - coverage up to $100K Med rehab, $72K attendant care.
catastrophic injury - extra 1 Mil for Med rehab & attendant care.
income replacement - $600, $800, or $1000/wk subject to 70% of gross income. So, if you don't make well over $1000 a week, buying that coverage is not going to pay you that much.

Any judgment awarded to you is paid by the insurance company of the liable driver or the liable driver themselves. This is where the liability deductible comes into play. If you were awarded $400 000 by the court, you actually receive $370K (less the 30K deductible) As previously mentioned, you can buy that deductible down to $20K.

I hope that clears some things up!

Anyone who has taken the time and read all of this could write the auto portion of their brokers licence.
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Old 12-15-2010, 07:37 PM   #25
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Good stuff, Im glad you cleared that up.

So in the case of no officer showing up, when you go to the collision reporting centre is fault determined there, or does the insurance provider look at a pre-determined list of values and creates its own verdict??
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:39 PM   #26
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So I had to leave my car on the road because the tow trucks couldn't get to it. I found out today that it got rear ended. FML!
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:51 PM   #27
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if i may ask? my friends truck just got stolen at limeridge, any inside tips ? we know his insurance is going to wait the 10 days then dick him around till his rental runs out to put the pressure on him. he has full coverage, it was an 03 s10 in pristine shape with a bunch of extras (audio, bush bar etc).
ive never had a car stolen so i dont have any idea how it works ,but he told me if they find it, he still has to pay 300 deduct. and if not they take 300 off his settlement, either way hes screwed out of 300 bucks for somehting that isnt his fault? yes its worth it to replace a vehicle for only 300, but still seems shitty.
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Old 12-16-2010, 09:17 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tg07lq View Post
if i may ask? my friends truck just got stolen at limeridge, any inside tips ? we know his insurance is going to wait the 10 days then dick him around till his rental runs out to put the pressure on him. he has full coverage, it was an 03 s10 in pristine shape with a bunch of extras (audio, bush bar etc).
ive never had a car stolen so i dont have any idea how it works ,but he told me if they find it, he still has to pay 300 deduct. and if not they take 300 off his settlement, either way hes screwed out of 300 bucks for somehting that isnt his fault? yes its worth it to replace a vehicle for only 300, but still seems shitty.
i guess it depends what way you look at it. you can have a $0 deductible but then you pay more overall for insurance.

but whichever way you look at it. getting your car or for that matter anything stolen sucks.
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Old 12-16-2010, 11:42 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tg07lq View Post
if i may ask? my friends truck just got stolen at limeridge, any inside tips ? we know his insurance is going to wait the 10 days then dick him around till his rental runs out to put the pressure on him. he has full coverage, it was an 03 s10 in pristine shape with a bunch of extras (audio, bush bar etc).
ive never had a car stolen so i dont have any idea how it works ,but he told me if they find it, he still has to pay 300 deduct. and if not they take 300 off his settlement, either way hes screwed out of 300 bucks for somehting that isnt his fault? yes its worth it to replace a vehicle for only 300, but still seems shitty.
Tell your friend to do his research before the company makes their offer. Adjusters use the same methods to determine the value of a vehicle as you do: auto trader, kijiji, craigslist etc. He isn't going to get much, if anything, for the extras unless he had previously reported them to the company. However, it is worth mentioning any big maintenance items he had done recently. If the offer is not acceptable bring his agent or broker into the mix. Good luck.
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Old 12-16-2010, 11:47 AM   #30
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Good stuff, Im glad you cleared that up.

So in the case of no officer showing up, when you go to the collision reporting centre is fault determined there, or does the insurance provider look at a pre-determined list of values and creates its own verdict??
The adjusters from each company discuss and agree on the fault determination rule that applies to the situation. The police and collision reporting centre have no role in determining fault. However, the convictions assigned and their reports are considered by the adjusters.
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