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Old 07-30-2010, 07:56 AM   #31
DINAN 3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus View Post
Its comments like this that point you out as a zionist.
I mean from all the stuff i said, is this the only thing you picked up simply cause he agreed with me?
So the new definition of a Zionist, is someone that doesn't support your beloved Hamas party ?
As mentioned before, I don't care about any of the parties involved, but I won't stand for Hamas ideology that mirrors Hitler's "Kampf" of the 1940's.
Too many people were sillent back then.

Last edited by DINAN 3; 07-30-2010 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 08-01-2010, 04:41 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by DINAN 3 View Post
So the new definition of a Zionist, is someone that doesn't support your beloved Hamas party ?
As mentioned before, I don't care about any of the parties involved, but I won't stand for Hamas ideology that mirrors Hitler's "Kampf" of the 1940's.
Too many people were sillent back then.
I have explained over and over my position and yet you insist not going to the point.
We all agree Hamas is wrong but that is a minority in Gazza. However the reaction Gaza gets from Israel, or maybe i should say the counterstrike is way out of line.
Therefore i ask you in a simple question. Do you believe that if Israel wanted to resolve this issue in a peacefull way they would?
Cause from what i see they could easily kill all the Hammas leaders and end this at the most extreme scenario.
However they insist on keeping Gazza as a concentration camp.
And lastly you were the one that initialy pointed me out as anti semetic simply because i dont agree with Israels actions (although i clearly stated i dont agree with Hammas either) . And that in my mind is a clear indication you are a Zionist as you clearly refuce to accept any wrongdoing for Israel.
Now unless you answer my question above clearly dont bother trying to change the direction of the conversation as i wont reply.
No disrespect to you in any way... but i ve set my mind and find Israels action not equal and opposite to Hammas but greater and opposite insted(in a bad way offcourse) and you can not convince me that Gazza is a lie by pointing out malls and restaurants! I see more bodies than a small silly mall......
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Old 08-01-2010, 05:21 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus View Post
I have explained over and over my position and yet you insist not going to the point.
We all agree Hamas is wrong but that is a minority in Gazza. However the reaction Gaza gets from Israel, or maybe i should say the counterstrike is way out of line.
Therefore i ask you in a simple question. Do you believe that if Israel wanted to resolve this issue in a peacefull way they would?
Cause from what i see they could easily kill all the Hammas leaders and end this at the most extreme scenario.
However they insist on keeping Gazza as a concentration camp.
And lastly you were the one that initialy pointed me out as anti semetic simply because i dont agree with Israels actions (although i clearly stated i dont agree with Hammas either) . And that in my mind is a clear indication you are a Zionist as you clearly refuce to accept any wrongdoing for Israel.
Now unless you answer my question above clearly dont bother trying to change the direction of the conversation as i wont reply.
No disrespect to you in any way... but i ve set my mind and find Israels action not equal and opposite to Hammas but greater and opposite insted(in a bad way offcourse) and you can not convince me that Gazza is a lie by pointing out malls and restaurants! I see more bodies than a small silly mall......
and you keep on downplaying the facts and contradicting yourself.....NO minority situation here what so ever...Gazans as a majority elected Hamas (which you stated as a fact before), therefore GAZA = Hamas, until they vote for a more peacefull government.
Israel has the right to defend itself against Hamas/Gaza government launched terrorism (acts of war) as it sees fit.
Israel has a track record of making peace with nations that seek peace.
Hamas has a track record of terror and murder and nothing else.
Hamas has been declared a terrorist party.
Hamas clearly states that part of its agenda is to erradicte the jewish entity (definition of racism).
You believe that Israel should just accept its citizens to be slaughtered by Hamas ?
What's your solution ?

PS: BTW.....You shouldn't throw around the term "concentration camp" so losely...no comparison what so ever to the Holocaust.
You might not be realizing that in doing so, you are making light of a very dark and grave time in history.

Last edited by DINAN 3; 08-01-2010 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 08-01-2010, 07:06 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by DINAN 3 View Post
and you keep on downplaying the facts and contradicting yourself.....NO minority situation here what so ever...Gazans as a majority elected Hamas (which you stated as a fact before), therefore GAZA = Hamas, until they vote for a more peacefull government.
Israel has the right to defend itself against Hamas/Gaza government launched terrorism (acts of war) as it sees fit.
Israel has a track record of making peace with nations that seek peace.
Hamas has a track record of terror and murder and nothing else.
Hamas has been declared a terrorist party.
Hamas clearly states that part of its agenda is to erradicte the jewish entity (definition of racism).
You believe that Israel should just accept its citizens to be slaughtered by Hamas ?
What's your solution ?

PS: BTW.....You shouldn't throw around the term "concentration camp" so losely...no comparison what so ever to the Holocaust.
You might not be realizing that in doing so, you are making light of a very dark and grave time in history.

As i thought you did not answer my question therefore i find it pointless to continue...
And yes it is a concentration camp as they cant travel in and out, they cant get food or goods that they want and to top it of they are killed slowly.
What is the difference? Instead of gas they get bullets?
It actually is defined as a 'penal camp where political prisoners are often held to serve a sentence under harsh conditions'.
And for future reference the whole holocaust is in the past! We cant keep accepting that as an excuse!
There were many more countries , races and religious groups that had similar if not worst past.
But you dont seem no1 using it as an excuse!
And the term concentration camp does not only apply to the Jewish community.
But once again as in all conversations about Israel it seems to end up looking at the past and what happened to the Jews by the Nazis.
Yes they suffered but werent the only ones. And in my eyes they should be the ones to hold the peace flag and lead others as a peacefull nation due to their experience. Not the other way around as it is now!
And before you give me a lecture on history and what i should throw around please note that you are the one comparing Hamas to Hitler for whatever the reasons you had.
Not all problems of Israel are Nazi related you know....
So i can throw concentration camp as freely and as often as i want to! Even if it offends as it shouldnt!
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Lo there do I see my mother.
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where the brave may live forever"

Last edited by magnus; 08-01-2010 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 08-02-2010, 12:11 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus View Post
As i thought you did not answer my question therefore i find it pointless to continue...
And yes it is a concentration camp as they cant travel in and out, they cant get food or goods that they want and to top it of they are killed slowly.
What is the difference? Instead of gas they get bullets?
It actually is defined as a 'penal camp where political prisoners are often held to serve a sentence under harsh conditions'.
And for future reference the whole holocaust is in the past! We cant keep accepting that as an excuse!
There were many more countries , races and religious groups that had similar if not worst past.
But you dont seem no1 using it as an excuse!
And the term concentration camp does not only apply to the Jewish community.
But once again as in all conversations about Israel it seems to end up looking at the past and what happened to the Jews by the Nazis.
Yes they suffered but werent the only ones. And in my eyes they should be the ones to hold the peace flag and lead others as a peacefull nation due to their experience. Not the other way around as it is now!
And before you give me a lecture on history and what i should throw around please note that you are the one comparing Hamas to Hitler for whatever the reasons you had.
Not all problems of Israel are Nazi related you know....
So i can throw concentration camp as freely and as often as i want to! Even if it offends as it shouldnt!
Your dramatic exagerations are starting to bore me.
If you think that Israel is going to hold the peace flag out to a government of terrorist thugs and murderers, then you're out for lunch.
That would be sucide, so I'm affraid you'll have to come up with a better solution.
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Old 08-02-2010, 05:25 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by DINAN 3 View Post
Your dramatic exagerations are starting to bore me.
If you think that Israel is going to hold the peace flag out to a government of terrorist thugs and murderers, then you're out for lunch.
That would be sucide, so I'm affraid you'll have to come up with a better solution.
yes i am boring..cause you dont like the facts...so whats your solution then?
bomb Gazza to pieces?
And the rest of the world will have to look the other way cause its Israel?
And you still havent answered me......Do you think if Israel wanted to solve this peacefully they couldnt?
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:55 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus View Post
yes i am boring..cause you dont like the facts...so whats your solution then?
bomb Gazza to pieces?
And the rest of the world will have to look the other way cause its Israel?
And you still havent answered me......Do you think if Israel wanted to solve this peacefully they couldnt?
Don't turn the tables on me.
You're the one that has issues with Israel's re-action, so let's hear the better solution.
If you're going to be an arm chair critic, then you should have a better solution at hand.
I've answered your question numerous times; Hamas doesn't want peace, so Israel has to deal with the situation at hand, until the people of Gaza will ellect a peacefull government.
One can't very well be asked to make peace with someone, who wants to destroy you.

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Old 08-02-2010, 11:23 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by DINAN 3 View Post
Don't turn the tables on me.
You're the one that has issues with Israel's re-action, so let's hear the better solution.
If you're going to be an arm chair critic, then you should have a better solution at hand.
I've answered your question numerous times; Hamas doesn't want peace, so Israel has to deal with the situation at hand, until the people of Gaza will ellect a peacefull government.
One can't very well be asked to make peace with someone, who wants to destroy you.


sure thing.....I am the one that has issues....not you with your posts of malls and shops and claimming Gaza is simply a lie.....yeah!
Good luck with that.
And btw that is not what i asked you. I asked if you believe that if Israel wanted to resolve this peacefully if they could! Not what the solution is!
ANd btw its not that Israel goverment is peacefull either.
But as i assume your mind is set on believing what you believe i wont continue this. You carry on complaining about the amenities Gaza has ..
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Lo there do I see my mother.
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:42 AM   #39
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Arrow In conclusion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus View Post
sure thing.....I am the one that has issues....not you with your posts of malls and shops and claimming Gaza is simply a lie.....yeah!
Good luck with that.
And btw that is not what i asked you. I asked if you believe that if Israel wanted to resolve this peacefully if they could! Not what the solution is!
ANd btw its not that Israel goverment is peacefull either.
But as i assume your mind is set on believing what you believe i wont continue this. You carry on complaining about the amenities Gaza has ..

Not saying Gaza is a lie.....just the way you describe it is a gross exageration...to obtain the attention and sympathy of others.

Approximately 110 rockets and mortars have been fired by Hamas at Israeli territory since the beginning of 2010 and over 400 rockets were fired from the Gaza Strip into Israel since the end of Operation Cast Lead.
All of these rockets, sanctioned by the Hamas government, are fired with the express intention to kill and maim Israeli CIVILIANS - truly innocent civilians, unlike Gazans who hide/harbour Hamas soldiers/terrorist within their homes and public facilities (schools), providing them with sheltered rocket launching locations to attack Israel.

It doesn't take much smarts to see through you, "Magnus".
With your simplistic descriptions and untruths, you are downplaying the above mentioned Palestinian rocket attacks.
By downplaying the Palestinian rocket attacks and removing their murderous intent, you are denying Israel the right to self-defence, in order to reach your ultimate goal; to have Israel to come across as an aggressor.

Thus Israeli self-defence is given the same moral equivalence as the terrorist acts emanating from Gaza.
The reason why world governments are not getting involved is because they can tell the difference between terrorism and self-defence.
It is clear to them that it is impossible for Israel to make peace with Hamas, when Hamas's goal is to destroy Israel.

Still waiting for your fabulous solution...

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Old 08-04-2010, 11:08 AM   #40
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Still waiting for your fabulous solution...
The fabulous solution would be to have a babysitter to look after both children that can't play nice and take away their toys that they keep hitting each other with. Doesn't matter who started it. Someone has to be the 'bigger' of the two and get their act together. People dwell too much on the past, making their grudges resurface time and time again. Both sides are right, both sides are wrong...it depends who you ask.

The difference between someones opinion and what is actually going on is that there is only one truth but we don't know it because there is no objective data, just news that is always spun in one direction or another.
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Old 08-04-2010, 11:30 AM   #41
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The fabulous solution would be to have a babysitter to look after both children that can't play nice and take away their toys that they keep hitting each other with. Doesn't matter who started it. Someone has to be the 'bigger' of the two and get their act together. People dwell too much on the past, making their grudges resurface time and time again. Both sides are right, both sides are wrong...it depends who you ask.

The difference between someones opinion and what is actually going on is that there is only one truth but we don't know it because there is no objective data, just news that is always spun in one direction or another.
Agreed.
Though that was tried in Lebanon, but poorly executed, as the UN soldiers have no teeth behind their muscle.
Also, wondering why the situation in the West Bank is much more civil/peacefull ?
Can't we learn from that and apply the same conditions in Gaza ?
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Old 08-04-2010, 10:41 PM   #42
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Not saying Gaza is a lie........
Yes you more or less do by posting videos of a mall and some silly article writen by a zionist that shows life is all well in Gaza!
And i didnt describe nothing. I showed you documents from respected organizations. Are they exagerating too now?
Or maybe you should check the pic below and tell me again how wonderfull life must be in Gaza....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._v3_Lowres.png

Here are some more:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7855070.stm

Here is what you clasify as fair counterstrikes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War

And i quote:
The conflict resulted in between 1,166 and 1,417 Palestinian and 13 Israeli deaths.[46]


And you wonder why the Palestinians voted Hammas? I would do the same if i was treated liket that......i would vote for the guy that fights back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DINAN 3 View Post
.
All of these rockets, sanctioned by the Hamas government, are fired with the express intention to kill and maim Israeli CIVILIANS - truly innocent civilians, unlike Gazans who hide/harbour Hamas soldiers/terrorist within their homes and public facilities (schools), providing them with sheltered rocket launching locations to attack Israel
So in other words you are claiming that all citizens in Gaza are Hamas and wrong? And the counterstrikes from Israel are not intented to kill right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DINAN 3 View Post
It doesn't take much smarts to see through you, "Magnus".
With your simplistic descriptions and untruths, you are downplaying the above mentioned Palestinian rocket attacks.
By downplaying the Palestinian rocket attacks and removing their murderous intent, you are denying Israel the right to self-defence, in order to reach your ultimate goal; to have Israel to come across as an aggressor.
I have the simplistic descriptions?
You say that after posting a friggin mall video and saying that cause they have a swimming pool they arent in such a bad state?
And when did i downplay the rockets by Hammas. I said its wrong a million times but what i was trying to get through your simplistic mind is that one rocket from one idiot who threw it shouldnt cost a myriad of lifes from counterstrikes.

Quote:
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Thus Israeli self-defence is given the same moral equivalence as the terrorist acts emanating from Gaza.
The reason why world governments are not getting involved is because they can tell the difference between terrorism and self-defence.
It is clear to them that it is impossible for Israel to make peace with Hamas, when Hamas's goal is to destroy Israel.

Still waiting for your fabulous solution...
If you honnestly think that this is the reason that nations arent getting involved you need to open your eyes and look closer.
Ever thought where Hammas gets their weapons for example?
And do you honnestly think the US would step on Israels toes?
What are we 2 years old now? The whole damn Israel is build with funding from the US. Even the Simpsons showed it in one of their episodes.

Obviously you only watch CNN and NBC as you got some stuff mixed up.

And although you did not answer me the question i made and i know you never will cause we both know your answer will prove you wrong.

The easiest solution would be a separation of the two nations by a third party. Even if they need to build the equivalent of the Berlin wall.
Yes still Hamas will try to do what they do but realistically speaking the total deaths in both sides would dramatically reduce.
Instead though Israel has Gaza in lock down and refuse to obey international laws and comply with UN orders in a profound way. And it has nothing to do with security reasons unless they see the UN as a terrorist too.
Is that simple enough description for you or do i have to draw it for you.......
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Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever"

Last edited by magnus; 08-04-2010 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 08-04-2010, 11:27 PM   #43
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IMO,
CNN+NBC= Good paid propaganda
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Old 08-04-2010, 11:27 PM   #44
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magnus, I believe the reason Dinan and I disagree with you so strongly is because your attitude on the subject is "one rocket from one idiot shouldn't cost a myriad of lives from counterstrikes."

It is not one rocket. It's hundreds of rockets. Thousands of rockets. Countless suicide bombings in civilian markets and cafes. None designed to attack Israeli soldiers or tactical locations. Just disfigure or kill civilians.

You eagerly call them counterstrikeS by Israel. Acknowledge for us that you realize there have been thousands of Hamas-government sanctioned attacks and deaths of Israelis over the last decade please?
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Old 08-04-2010, 11:43 PM   #45
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The easiest solution would be a separation of the two nations by a third party. Even if they need to build the equivalent of the Berlin wall.Yes still Hamas will try to do what they do but realistically speaking the total deaths in both sides would dramatically reduce.
Instead though Israel has Gaza in lock down and refuse to obey international laws and comply with UN orders in a profound way. And it has nothing to do with security reasons unless they see the UN as a terrorist too.
Is that simple enough description for you or do i have to draw it for you.......
Hmmm separation of two nations by a third party... where have I heard this one before. Oh ya. May 14, 1948, the UNITED NATIONS created the state of Israel. And on May 14, 1948, within hours of it's statehood, it was attacked by a coalition of Arab countries.

Where could we ever find a wall to physically separate Gaza, from Israel?? Oh ya, IN GAZA. The Israelis have built a security wall/fence over the last decade. It has dramatically reduce the suicide bombings but a wall doesn't do much against rocket fire.

You agree that Hamas will still try to eradicate Israel and Jewish civilians despite any security measures Israel might erect, and yet you STILL claim Israel is the bad guy? How can you contradict yourself so badly???
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