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Old 07-25-2010, 05:03 PM   #16
TheLoneVR!
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Im not pro-israeli or anyone else but .... Well Said!!

Israel is ahead of violence, in terms of experience not far behind places in africa, but especially Brasil!

If you think Israeli soldiers are brutal they are lil kids compared to the Brasilian Special Forces! LOL



Quote:
Originally Posted by mstearnsy View Post
Egypt doesn't use weapons against Gaza because Gaza doesn't use weapons against Egypt.

Israel should be applauded for "trying to be more western", and they definitely don't use tactics like their Arab neighbours.

Who's the bully in the middle east? Several times Israel has been attacked by multiple Arab nations simultaneously. That somehow makes tiny Israel the bully? Israel is the tiny, geeky kid in school who keeps getting smacked around here and there by all the other kids, but then people start to realize that that geeky kid has a hell of a right hook once he's fed up. Maybe they should just leave that kid alone and then the geeky kid won't end up hurting all the idiots who used to pick on him??
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Old 07-25-2010, 05:08 PM   #17
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and!
as a side note........ TERRORISM doesnt follow any rules and runs under the radar. So if Israel is acting on something 9/10 times there is a reason or threat to them!
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:54 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus View Post
At the moment no one is allowed in or out without express Israeli permission. (So what, Palestinians also need visas to all other Arab countries, which most of the time they don't get).
They are launching regular air strikes against Gaza. They say it is in retaliation for rocket attacks by Hammas but it is totally disproportional and Hammas claim exactly the opposite, that it is Israel who is the aggressor.
Before the blockade the area was profitable and doing well. Now the largely innocent population are near starvation. (More BS.....plenty of food + staples available...see pics in my original link)
Israel might object to Hammas but they were at least democratically elected this time. It seems that Gaza is free to vote but only free to vote for a party permitted by Israel. (No.....when they vote for a terrorist party...that chooses to terrorize Israel...they collectively pay the price.)
Worst of all and inexcusable is Israels refusal to allow aid into Gaza. (More BS.....phew it stinks in here...again, see pics of all the daily aid trucks entering Gaza)
Aid agencies are lined up waiting to go in to alleviate the suffering of those innocent people caught up in this but the Government will not allow them in.
This is in direct contravention of the Geneva Convention and international law.
How can they justify these totally disproportional measures which only serve to punish innocent people. I doubt the terrorists care much. (No one is innocent.....they have ellected a terrorist government...with a mandate to destroy Israel)
Also how can people, including yourself, support these actions in the light of the illegality and suffering of innocent people.
Yes the terrorists are wrong throwing rockets but that does not justify the actions Israel takes in retaliation. (Israel, just like any other country, has the right to defend itself against attacks from another government. It's called an act of war and no country will sit on it's hands, while it's citizens are being bombed.)
They behave as if Israeli life is worth more than Palestinian life.
If you fail to recognize the failings and moral shortcomings on both sides you are part of the problem. (The problem is growing a beard.....Hamas/Iran will not recognize Israel and does NOT want peace...that's who you are defending !)
BTW i hope you know why the recent developments of the past 3 years is taking place!
If not just to enlighten you ...

Israel broke the truce on November 4, 2008. While the whole world was focused on US Presidential elections. (More BS.....fail to mention that the Palestinians escalated their rocket attacks, weeks prior...they were asking for it)

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opin…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksLXN20h2
That's exactly why I posted my original link, to discredit the above sob stories about "innocent" starving Palestinians.
Ask any Palestinian and chances are, he would prefer to live in Israel (http://www.hudson-ny.org/1433/arabs-...-run-to-israel).
Why ? Cause many Arabs hate Palestinians and have evicted them out of their own countries.
Magnus.....don't see you having a beef with Jordan...who has done much worse.
Your complaints focus strictly on Israel, 100% of the time.

Last edited by DINAN 3; 07-29-2010 at 02:03 AM.
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Old 07-29-2010, 09:49 AM   #19
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https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/gz.html

Unemployment rate: 40% (2009 est.)
Population below poverty line: 70% (2009 est.)


Yes, everything is great in Gaza.
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:13 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstearnsy View Post
Egypt doesn't use weapons against Gaza because Gaza doesn't use weapons against Egypt.

Israel should be applauded for "trying to be more western", and they definitely don't use tactics like their Arab neighbours.

Who's the bully in the middle east? Several times Israel has been attacked by multiple Arab nations simultaneously. That somehow makes tiny Israel the bully? Israel is the tiny, geeky kid in school who keeps getting smacked around here and there by all the other kids, but then people start to realize that that geeky kid has a hell of a right hook once he's fed up. Maybe they should just leave that kid alone and then the geeky kid won't end up hurting all the idiots who used to pick on him??
perhaps that little geeky kid is the principles son! no?
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:59 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickFinga View Post
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/gz.html

Unemployment rate: 40% (2009 est.)
Population below poverty line: 70% (2009 est.)


Yes, everything is great in Gaza.
Not saying things a great, but there are many worse places in the world, including most other arab countries.
Maybe if Hamas would move off its war path, stop spending on arming itself and start making some strides towards peace (by recognizing Israel), I'm sure Israel will also be willing to enter into a peace agreement with them.
Israel has a positive track record of entering into "land for peace" agreements with Egypt and Jordan, who were willing to recognize it.
Hamas has a track record of death, terror and corruption.
War with Israel is a source of income (financed by Iran) for the Hamas croonies, so why would they want to give that up for peace ?

Last edited by DINAN 3; 07-29-2010 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 07-29-2010, 02:51 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DINAN 3 View Post
Magnus.....don't see you having a beef with Jordan...who has done much worse.
Your complaints focus strictly on Israel, 100% of the time.
That is the silliest arguement i ve heared.
USA has done worst things than Palestinians and Israel but i dont see you having beef with them either.
So has most African states, etc.
The point is that so far Israel has been presenting Palestine as some form of 100% terrorist state when in fact they use worst tactics against them.
Or do you deny that too?
Obviously you support Israel and good for you, but if a shopping mall and a swimming pool clasify a whole country as rich you should check yourself and your arguements as you are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off! since if that clasifies Gazza as ok, then there must be no problems in the world!
I have heared in person of what realy happens there by guess who.....Israely soldiers. Yes thats right. They were bragging on shit that happens there that are completely inhumane....so whatever you say or do i know what to believe.
Now if you think that Israel soldiers lie then....you contradict yourself and yourself alone.

ANd just out of curiocity and assuming you dont mind me asking.
I am Christian orthodox butadmitedly not the most faithfull person.
What are you?
I only ask this because for some reason you seem to see me as anti semetic, and i am not. I am anti Israelly in a political view and that alone!
And it makes no difference to me, but if you are jewish i dont see the point continouing this convo as i am certain there is no way to convince you Israel is wrong on the way they act, most of the times!
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:39 PM   #23
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^^^

The point is that I don't have a beef with anyone (Incl Palestinians), but people who single out a specific nation (like you with Israel) and apply different standards for that nation (that is clearly anti-semetic).
Being German, I can't tolerate such behaviour, because I know very well where that leads to.
Maybe you don't see that side of yourself ?

Not sure why you make this about a swimming pool and malls ?
Scroll down on my initial link and you will find plenty of pics/video of stacked grocery stores, markets abundent in fresh fruits, vegetables, meats and even fancy cakes and pastries.....toiletries...toys..etc.
Hundreds of tonnes of supplies cross the border from Israel into Gaza every day (see video).
Mercedez taxis are driving the streets, fancy hotels and restaurants have been built.
People are out shopping and going about their daily lives and from the pics, they always seem to be well dressed.
All a far cry from the extreme poverty you proclaim.....living standards that seem to exceed many other middle eastern countries...that's why I called out your BS.

We can debate on and on, but at the end of the day, the ONLY way for this nonsense to end, is by Hamas renouncing terrorism and recognizing Israel's right to exist.
Only then will Israel negotiate peace.
Really a very simple concept for someone that seeks peace.
Except that Hamas (elected by the Palestinians) is not interested in peace.
Why is that soo hard for you to recognize ?
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:47 PM   #24
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Post Proof is in the pudding...

no more reason to exagerate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCRJr...layer_embedded

PS: Even included E36 content in above link !!!

Last edited by DINAN 3; 07-29-2010 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:53 PM   #25
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somebody caption this pic:

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Old 07-29-2010, 04:56 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue View Post
somebody caption this pic:

Lol.....at least someone bothered to scroll down my link !
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:36 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DINAN 3 View Post
The point is that I don't have a beef with anyone (Incl Palestinians), but people who single out a specific nation (like you with Israel) and apply different standards for that nation (that is clearly anti-semetic).
Being German, I can't tolerate such behaviour, because I know very well where that leads to.
Maybe you don't see that side of yourself ?

Not sure why you make this about a swimming pool and malls ?
Scroll down on my initial link and you will find plenty of pics/video of stacked grocery stores, markets abundent in fresh fruits, vegetables, meats and even fancy cakes and pastries.....toiletries...toys..etc.
Hundreds of tonnes of supplies cross the border from Israel into Gaza every day (see video).
Mercedez taxis are driving the streets, fancy hotels and restaurants have been built.
People are out shopping and going about their daily lives and from the pics, they always seem to be well dressed.
All a far cry from the extreme poverty you proclaim.....living standards that seem to exceed many other middle eastern countries...that's why I called out your BS.

We can debate on and on, but at the end of the day, the ONLY way for this nonsense to end, is by Hamas renouncing terrorism and recognizing Israel's right to exist.
Only then will Israel negotiate peace.
Really a very simple concept for someone that seeks peace.
Except that Hamas (elected by the Palestinians) is not interested in peace.
Why is that soo hard for you to recognize ?
And what makes you think i am against only Israel?
I too more or less see things from a perspective of what is fair!
And i did not make it about malls and shops....you did with this thread.
The fact is that yes people will try and go about their lives as normal as they can no matter what nation or religion or state they re in.
But although i agree that part of the problem is Hammas i dont think its the only problem.
The funny thing is you mention other Arab nations not liking Palestine but have you asked or looked at whether they support Israel?
The fact is this and i dont see any reasoning or decent excuses.
A small group of people in Palestine are acting inapropriate and throw rockets and whatever. And Israel responds by killing 10 or 100 times more innocent people in retaliation. Its the similar in some ways to what happened in Kosovo. Yet in Kosovo the Serbs where the bad guys and in this case Israel does the same and are regarded as the good guys?
Israel killing Hamas leaders and their family, as they do all the time, is deplorable. And invites retaliation. It makes the argument of non-violent resolution to Palestinians so much harder when they are faced with such ruthless violence on the other side.
Imagine what world reaction would have been if Hamas had just killed one of the top Israeli leaders and their family. No one can honestly say that we would have the same reaction of indifference and i am certain Israel would completely destroy Gaza including all women and children. They would be called butcher, madmen, terrorists. Even if you are a hard-core Israel supporter no matter what they do, you have to agree with that. Hamas would be called terrorists for that same exact action. The double standard is what i dont like.
The rocket attacks are for sure "deeply disturbing" to Israelis. But so too are the checkpoints, the road closures, the restricted movement, the terrible joblessness, the unflinching oppression, the daily humiliations, the illegal settlement construction (and it is illegal ), "deeply disturbing" to the Palestinians, and far more injurious. And the amount of dead innocent folks from Gazza in comparison to the innocent folks of Israel should be disturbing to everyone.
There is nothing proportionate in Israels response. No way to fit it into a larger strategy that leads towards eventual peace. No way to fool ourselves into believing that it will reduce bloodshed and stop terrorist attacks. It is simply vengeance. There's a saying in the Jewish community: "Israel, right or wrong." But sometimes Israel is simply wrong.

In other words If Israel wanted to resolve this peacefully it would have happened by now.
But denying international investigations shows clearly that there is more to it than meets the eye.
You may accuse me as antisemetic for thinking like that but its simply facts.
Even if they drove Ferraris in Gaza i would still support them. Cause one picture or a video can not capture the condition a whole nation is. Its only a small part.
And at the end of the day as you probably have noticed the world is waking up and is not happy with Israels actions. Simply because Israel acts in a selfish way.

I wont try to convince you any more but i will leave you with this comment.
If i am antisemetic cause i doubt the stories Israel says then you are a zionist!
I dont see my self as antisemetic in any way and i have stated it repeatedly.
I just do not like the politics Israel follows and the means to do it. On a political level alone. Nothing to do with religion.
But as most jews always end up blaming it on antisemetisism so have you...
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Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
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they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever"

Last edited by magnus; 07-29-2010 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:16 AM   #28
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^well said.
it may fall on the deaf ears of zionists blinded by hate but there are still humans in this world...
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:45 AM   #29
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Quote:
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^well said.
it may fall on the deaf ears of zionists blinded by hate but there are still humans in this world...
So you want everyone to believe that the humans of this world support terrorist Hamas, which plunders from its own people to finance their war of terror against Israel.
I hate to break it to you, but most of the civil world hates Hamas, because they know very well that they are the next target on their hitlist.
Israel is only the front line.....the rest of us infidels are next...according to their charter.
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Old 07-30-2010, 04:42 AM   #30
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So you want everyone to believe that the humans of this world support terrorist Hamas, which plunders from its own people to finance their war of terror against Israel.
I hate to break it to you, but most of the civil world hates Hamas, because they know very well that they are the next target on their hitlist.
Israel is only the front line.....the rest of us infidels are next...according to their charter.
Its comments like this that point you out as a zionist.
I mean from all the stuff i said, is this the only thing you picked up simply cause he agreed with me?
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"Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever"
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