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Old 03-25-2010, 01:45 AM   #46
richie_s999
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Originally Posted by ROCKETMAN View Post
This is a good way of looking at it.

Richie, how many "new" BMW's did you buy?

If your answer is 0, (as it usually is with people with your mindset) tell me why should BMW give a dam about what you think?
sorry for the double quote but I am wondering what our prenumption of my mindset is exactly and how you come about to judge it?
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Old 03-25-2010, 07:59 AM   #47
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ok so now that i am home from work, I can type a proper response, of my personal regards to all this....

First off dsc and traction control install a faulseness of controling a vehicle. if these systems are activated, its because of driver error, and its being corrected because the driver is operating the vehicle beyond conditions, abbility and skill level. If the driver is operating the vehicle in a propper manner they should never be needed.

These systems do not teach drivers to respect the vehicle, rules of the roads or anything to do with safe driving, they cause bad unrespectful drivers to push a vehicle they can not handle.



now you should not compair them to seat belts and abs which save people from being in an collision or when a vehicle breaks.


BMW really has 2 division, luxury and Motorsport, which are very very different things.

The M badge is being placed on everything and anything lately, to sell cars that are not really performance vehicle.

As for the vehicles they make today, sorry power levels in HP and such are old news, they have been able to do that for a long time, the only reason they need more power is to offset the weight increase of all these new "safety" features.

the roads are not safer because of front wheel drive, awd, dsc,tc, or any off that. I drive 200 km a day back and forth from work, guess what the cars you see crashing all the time are because of shit drivers making mistakes on the road, and driving aggresivly around others.

I take pride in my driving record, I will drive spiritly when contition are there, but never in any way that would put anyone in danger. Wish I could feel that way around all the other drivers on the road today.

in closing yes, your right I was off on your car being an e90. its a bubble tea meet car that only comes out maybe 12 times a year to be parked and looked at right?
Dynamic Stability Control is absolutely comparable to ABS brakes. First of all it uses the same technology, wheel speed sensors, and accomplishes the exact same thing. Your theory about driver's not learning how to control it because the car will save them applies to ABS. What's the best way to stop any car with ABS? MASH the brake pedal, don't finesse it like threshold braking. So, if your car has ABS, then YOU have a falseness of control, and must be a bad, unrespectful driver, based on your statement above.

Safety is safety. The fact is that roads ARE safer because of things like DSC. What you likely don't realize is that the limits on modern cars are SO high, DSC almost never intervenes. You don't like it simply because on an old E30, it would be activated at much lower speeds and would spoil your fun.

I daily drive my M3 Competition pack, locally and on the back roads to Kitchener once or twice every week. My car is stunning to drive. And there's no computers controlling my actions.
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:04 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by richie_s999 View Post
"Guys who like a 2002tii will mock you for driving your heavy, soft, comfortable, spacious, no-heritage E30 with it's huge, powerful 4 cylinder."

LOL un ya cause the M10 got bigger and more powerful when they put it in the E30??

most guys I know who have a 2002 also have an e30!
this is sarcasm dummy. Your car does not have a big powerful 4 cylinder. It's got a small weak 4 cylinder. My POINT is, your attitude towards modern cars, has existed for ages. I still remember people complaining when BMW launched the E36 that it has gotten "soft and heavy" compared to the E30. And the E30 is soft and heavy compared to a 2002. AND the 2002 is soft and heavy compared to a BMW Dixie.

Every generation of car gets bigger, heavier, faster and more luxurious, more cargo and passenger room, safer, and often better on fuel. Why do you tolerate your car having fancy ABS brakes, and seat belts, and fuel injection, and a cassette deck in it's dash, and intermittent wipers, and cruise control??? Why not drive a car from the 1930s??
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:08 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by richie_s999 View Post
Did I ever say they should give a dam about what I think....NO

I wouldn't buy a new one....its not what I look for in a car...nice audi in your sig.....guess they don't care about you either
Notice he has a BRAND NEW Audi though? BMW DOES care why he bought a new Audi instead of a new BMW. BMW does not care if someone buys a 1991 318 at this point. That's the whole point of this debate, you can only vote with your chequebook, not some meaningless "BMW is moving in the wrong direction, I won't be happy with this new 2010 BMW when I'm in the market to buy one in 20 years" drivel on the internet.
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:24 AM   #50
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DSC saves lives, and should be standard on all cars (it will be).
BMW is here to make money, and they always have.
The same demographics that buy 128i's bought 318iS' in 1991.
The 318iS, like the 128i, mixed newer "driving aids" like ABS with luxury and performance. There is no difference, just progress.
In 1991, a guy named Rich hated the E30 and said everyone should own a 2002.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:05 AM   #51
mstearnsy
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Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
DSC saves lives, and should be standard on all cars (it will be).
BMW is here to make money, and they always have.
The same demographics that buy 128i's bought 318iS' in 1991.
The 318iS, like the 128i, mixed newer "driving aids" like ABS with luxury and performance. There is no difference, just progress.
In 1991, a guy named Rich hated the E30 and said everyone should own a 2002.
Well said.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:32 AM   #52
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I once had a 'slight' conversion with a couple while waiting for the elevator in my condo's underground garage. I asked the dude what he thought of the e92 he was driving... his reply without even looking at me was this;

"e92? No its a bmw three three five 'i'" Wtf???
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:34 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
DSC saves lives, and should be standard on all cars (it will be).
BMW is here to make money, and they always have.
The same demographics that buy 128i's bought 318iS' in 1991.
The 318iS, like the 128i, mixed newer "driving aids" like ABS with luxury and performance. There is no difference, just progress.
In 1991, a guy named Rich hated the E30 and said everyone should own a 2002.
I was gonna comment on this thread, but this pretty much sums it up nicely.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:08 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by mstearnsy View Post
this is sarcasm dummy. Your car does not have a big powerful 4 cylinder. It's got a small weak 4 cylinder. My POINT is, your attitude towards modern cars, has existed for ages. I still remember people complaining when BMW launched the E36 that it has gotten "soft and heavy" compared to the E30. And the E30 is soft and heavy compared to a 2002. AND the 2002 is soft and heavy compared to a BMW Dixie.

Every generation of car gets bigger, heavier, faster and more luxurious, more cargo and passenger room, safer, and often better on fuel. Why do you tolerate your car having fancy ABS brakes, and seat belts, and fuel injection, and a cassette deck in it's dash, and intermittent wipers, and cruise control??? Why not drive a car from the 1930s??
call me a dummy, what every , tell my my car is weak go **** your self you stuck up I got a bigger more expensive, try to comenstate for my dickless crotch.

I have stated my feelings, and your so intolerable that anyone would have a different opion other then yours cause you know all that you will pick appart everything and anything.

You are one of those assholes who have to have everything your way, your always right, your cars are always better, and you cannot admit you that there are more then one schools of though.

Shit you must skipped what was wrote when I said I was playing it up a bit cause someone had said there hasn't been any drama lately.

your aruguments go back and forth, from trying to say I am a crazy driver that would put other in danger by driving in a certin fashion, to admitting you let it rip once in a while.

Take your over sized ego and get this, your not always right, and you got no right to downplay someone's car in any ****in way cause the motor is smaller or the price tag is different.....guess what....that 91 318is beat the e46 m3's this summer at the autocross races but at least the guys there driving them could handle that, you'd be crying to your mama
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:11 AM   #55
mstearnsy
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Originally Posted by E36is View Post
I once had a 'slight' conversion with a couple while waiting for the elevator in my condo's underground garage. I asked the dude what he thought of the e92 he was driving... his reply without even looking at me was this;

"e92? No its a bmw three three five 'i'" Wtf???
Cool story bro...
What's your point? You realize most of the public isn't like us right? We're the freaks, hanging out using factory code names for our vehicles! If I meet another guy with a Yamaha stereo, I don't say "How do you like that RXV765? I really love my HTR6290." We say "Great stereo eh?". You coulda done the same and he might have joined in the conversation.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:24 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by richie_s999 View Post
call me a dummy, what every , tell my my car is weak go **** your self you stuck up I got a bigger more expensive, try to comenstate for my dickless crotch.

I have stated my feelings, and your so intolerable that anyone would have a different opion other then yours cause you know all that you will pick appart everything and anything.

You are one of those assholes who have to have everything your way, your always right, your cars are always better, and you cannot admit you that there are more then one schools of though.

Shit you must skipped what was wrote when I said I was playing it up a bit cause someone had said there hasn't been any drama lately.

your aruguments go back and forth, from trying to say I am a crazy driver that would put other in danger by driving in a certin fashion, to admitting you let it rip once in a while.

Take your over sized ego and get this, your not always right, and you got no right to downplay someone's car in any ****in way cause the motor is smaller or the price tag is different.....guess what....that 91 318is beat the e46 m3's this summer at the autocross races but at least the guys there driving them could handle that, you'd be crying to your mama
It's a sliding scale Rich. Why don't you understand this? Your car was big, powerful, luxurious, and expensive compared to a 2002. My car is big, powerful, luxurious, and expensive compared to yours. And a 2010 M3 is big, powerful, luxurious, and expensive compared to mine. Get used to it. It's inevitable.

You seem to be the one with the ego, thinking every driver who owns a car with modern safety systems is an incompetent driver who can't match your skill. Fact is for the last 100 years EVERY crash was caused by driver error, not paying attention, driving too fast for road conditions, whatever. And there's continual safety improvements, so your rant against DSC holds no weight if you won't rant against ABS or seat belts. It's proven statistically to save lives, and if you want to drive without it, it just takes 1 button to turn it off.

Michael Schumacher could drive a cargo van around a track faster than a lot of driver's could drive any BMW or sports car. Put the same driver in a 1991 318 and then an E46 M3, and he's faster in the E46.
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:00 AM   #57
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Fact is for the last 100 years EVERY crash was caused by driver error, not paying attention, driving too fast for road conditions, Toyota and Goodyear!. And there's continual safety improvements, so your rant against DSC holds no weight if you won't rant against ABS or seat belts. It's proven statistically to save lives, and if you want to drive without it, it just takes 1 button to turn it off.
***EDITED***

I think it was goodyear those years back where the SUV tires all had to be recalled because they would blow up and ppl would loose control, crash and burn.
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:10 AM   #58
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***EDITED***

I think it was goodyear those years back where the SUV tires all had to be recalled because they would blow up and ppl would loose control, crash and burn.
They were Firestone tires on the Fords.
Personally I still place a lot of weight on the driver crashing their "runaway" Toyotas. It's easy to put it in neutral and stop it from accelerating. Driver stupidity caused them not to put it in neutral and they chose to crash it instead. That being said both Toyota and Ford/Firestone share some blame for their initial attempts at covering up or brushing over the defects.
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Old 03-25-2010, 01:04 PM   #59
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I agree there are some very great FWD cars, an yes the type R is pretty good. The focus is not any good here, but in Europe, they have the focus rs. I have family there, and they say it's a damn quick, and fast car.

I hope your right about BMW convincing us all. Although at the same time, I'm not against FWD, I had a FWD car for years, and wasn't that bad. VW R32 is a pretty good FWD car too, so I'm hoping that BMW knows what they are doing.

VW R32'S are AWD
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Old 03-25-2010, 01:17 PM   #60
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VW R32'S are AWD
Your right actually. I wasn't certain, but for some reason I was thinking they were FWD. If I wasn't sure I should have left it out. :p
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