Click to go to Forum Home Click to go to maXbimmer Home

Go Back   maXbimmer Forums > General > General Discussion
User Name
Password


Welcome to Maxbimmer.com!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-01-2010, 06:43 AM   #1
Sticky
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 71
World's first BMW DCT transmission build



The time has come to announce the details of my transmission build. No one has attempted this before and there unfortunately are no off the shelf parts. Everything will have to be custom made for this application which means the build time will be around 10 weeks from this point. This thread will be updated periodically with pictures and details every step of the way. I will be providing complete documented details through the process.




Why is the transmission being built?

For one, to handle more power and for longevity. It is no secret I have abused my transmission from the moment I got the car. I have done more launches at the drag strip using launch control than... anyone really. These launches are abusive, generate tremendous heat, and shorten the lifespan. Once supercharged, the issue was expounded. At a single event in '09 I used launch control 19 times with a burnout each time which generates considerable heat. I have attended 5 such events. Additionally, I have done launches on the street. I would estimate a conservative 70-80 uses of launch control up to this point.

So the transmission is weak?

No, not at all. Actually, it took far more than anyone would have thought. At these drag events, I would also run back to back at times. Keep in mind, I bumped the launch control RPM up as high as it would go, 6200 RPM. These are 6200 RPM launches after a burnout again and again. I estimate 70-80 uses and a properly used manual clutch in comparison should be good for about 50 passes before needing to be replaced. Just to give an idea of the abuse I put it through, I needed new motor mounts a year in as the abuse in the launches took its toll. Oops

Heat also contributed to shortening the lifespan. The moment I got the supercharger completed the car was on its way to the strip, literally. No exaggeration here, supercharger was completed and the car was on its way to the Famoso drag strip. It arrived with 15 minutes to spare and no cooldown whatsoever. I'm the kind of person that didn't want to save it for another day and decided to go for it. A mistake in retrospect as after the burnout I attempted to use launch control and it overheated. There are two levels of overheats, one that shows a yellow cog on the Idrive screen and one that shows a red cog. I got the red cog which means limp mode and no power until the transmission drops back down to temp. Instead of cooling it down, I decided to try again since now only 10 minutes were left. Launch control would not engage so I just mashed the gas and this worked. No overheat, full pass, no problem, however some timer light malfunction prevented a readout. I had a chance for one last pass back to back after this and I went for it. Tried launch control, it engaged, and on the first to second shift it overheated, red cog again, event over, no clean pass and a transmission lifespan shortened.

The best bet for launching the DCT at the strip or on the street for that matter with longevity in mind is to not use launch control. I learned this the hard way. However, the best bet for best times IS to use launch control.

How much power can the DCT take?

The unit BMW uses for the M3 is the Getrag 7DCI600. They rate it up to 440 pound-feet and 9000 RPM which is actually even a bit conservative. My transmission took about this torque level without incident driving around. It is the launches and overheats which made it so the clutch packs started slipping. It never fully gave out just the clutch packs were starting to slip and it was not going to get any better especially as I strove to add more power. If launches and drag strip visits are removed from the equation, on the street with a supercharger, absolutely no issues, just like stock. One can even exceed the recommended 440 pound-foot limit if just using it on the street like a normal person. Here is an up close shot of my transmission:



Ferrari's unit for the California, the Getrag 7DCL750, is rated for up to 553 pound-feet. It is also a much larger transmission and weighs 264 pounds compared to the M3's 7DCI600's 173 pounds. The Nissan GTR's GR6 by Borg Warner in comparison is rated for up to 650 pound-feet. It also has 6 speeds vs. the Getrag units 7.

So, you abused your transmission, the clutch packs started to slip, what were you going to do?

Well, I decided to build it. I knew I was not about to stop adding power any time soon so this would have to be done sooner or later. I also knew I wanted to use launch control on the strip. I started contacting companies building transmissions for the Nissan GTR seeing if any would be capable of tackling the M3 DCT. If you can name a company, I contacted them. I tried anyone and everyone and only one company said they could do it and were excited about the challenge of doing it. That company is South Side Performance: http://www.sspperformance.com/



SSP is currently the premier Aftermarket Dual Clutch Transmission Specialist in the world. They have been doing work on the GR6 in the GTR as well as the EVO SST's. They were the only company with the capability to tackle this project. Everyone else said it was not worth it, too small of a market, or that they did not have the capability to do it. Kris @ SSP told me to bring it on and that he would do what was necessary to get this thing to perform the way I wanted it to on the drag strip where performance is proven. I like that attitude

So what has SSP done? Well, SSP builds dual clutch transmissions that can do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bupq6GTX2iE

More info if you want it: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...-BMW-DCT-Build

I will be updating you guys with information periodically as it goes
Sticky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 07:09 AM   #2
Quack
Wheelman
 
Quack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,070
Send a message via MSN to Quack
very interesting, thread subscribed
__________________

Maxbimmer Drama, You Gotta Love It
Quack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 12:10 PM   #3
propr'one
op sucks cock
 
propr'one's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: T.
Posts: 17,790
Send a message via MSN to propr'one
Also curious to see how this works out. Not entirely sure why you dont just put a new clutch pack, or an aftermarket clutch pack that can take more launches, but all power to you.
__________________
I run a canadian HID kit company, if you have any questions about hid kits in canada or would like to check out our products please contact me here: http://absolutehid.ca

Hot: 2001 Estoril M RoadsterZCP 19's michelin supersports, ZHP knob, JL 8W3
Cold: 2002 TiAg M3 6mt ZCP 19's michelin supersports, deoranged, dechromed, led tails, ZHP knob, UUC SS v3, GROM, OEM 18's w310's,
Fun: 2006 YZF-R6, black
propr'one is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 02:55 PM   #4
ScotcH
6th Gear Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 1,871
Check the date people


(and if not ... good luck!)
__________________
2007 BMW 328Xi Touring, 6 speed
ScotcH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 03:08 PM   #5
Quack
Wheelman
 
Quack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,070
Send a message via MSN to Quack
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotcH View Post
Check the date people


(and if not ... good luck!)
I know, but I also know that money isn't the problem with this member, so anything is possible.
__________________

Maxbimmer Drama, You Gotta Love It
Quack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 03:36 PM   #6
propr'one
op sucks cock
 
propr'one's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: T.
Posts: 17,790
Send a message via MSN to propr'one
^^yeah i dont get what the joke would be. HAHA IM BUILDING A TRANNY

HAHA NO IM NOT OMFG LOL U IDIOTS.
__________________
I run a canadian HID kit company, if you have any questions about hid kits in canada or would like to check out our products please contact me here: http://absolutehid.ca

Hot: 2001 Estoril M RoadsterZCP 19's michelin supersports, ZHP knob, JL 8W3
Cold: 2002 TiAg M3 6mt ZCP 19's michelin supersports, deoranged, dechromed, led tails, ZHP knob, UUC SS v3, GROM, OEM 18's w310's,
Fun: 2006 YZF-R6, black
propr'one is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 03:52 PM   #7
Sticky
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by propr'one View Post
Also curious to see how this works out. Not entirely sure why you dont just put a new clutch pack, or an aftermarket clutch pack that can take more launches, but all power to you.
Well, that is what is part of what is being done. There are no clutch packs off the shelf. There are no aftermarket clutch packs. They are going to be made for me

Some more pics of the transmission arriving at SSP yesterday:

This is the flywheel, and the interesting thing is, the transmission counts the teeth on the back of the flywheel. No other DCT SSP has seen does this and it seems the purpose would be to detect wheelspin:








More pics and details: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...-BMW-DCT-Build
Sticky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 11:26 PM   #8
Sticky
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 71
Part II as promised: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...3143#post13143
Sticky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 11:50 PM   #9
Dissembler
4th Gear Member
 
Dissembler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oshawa
Posts: 667
That`s crazy in there. its always neat seeing the inside of a transmission, especially ones as complex as these.
Dissembler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2010, 08:13 PM   #10
Sticky
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 71
Part III: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...3313#post13313
Sticky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2010, 10:12 PM   #11
SamE30e
6th Gear Member
 
SamE30e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Milton
Posts: 2,886
So what M3 is this E90?
Cool build, I like seeing people do things out of the ordinary.
__________________
85 325 - 2.8 PTE6262 VEMS.
SamE30e is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2010, 01:25 AM   #12
Sticky
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamE30e View Post
So what M3 is this E90?
Cool build, I like seeing people do things out of the ordinary.
Yes, E92.
Sticky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2010, 01:50 AM   #13
MarkD
Banned
 
MarkD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: In Your DME!
Posts: 2,414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
Well, that is what is part of what is being done. There are no clutch packs off the shelf. There are no aftermarket clutch packs. They are going to be made for me

Some more pics of the transmission arriving at SSP yesterday:

This is the flywheel, and the interesting thing is, the transmission counts the teeth on the back of the flywheel. No other DCT SSP has seen does this and it seems the purpose would be to detect wheelspin:



You don't need to monitor the flywheel to determine wheel spin. Those teeth can be used to measure the position of the flywheel and it's rpm. Looks like a 60 tooth -2 setup to me as used on BMW's for around 25 years...
MarkD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2010, 03:56 AM   #14
Sticky
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkD View Post
You don't need to monitor the flywheel to determine wheel spin. Those teeth can be used to measure the position of the flywheel and it's rpm. Looks like a 60 tooth -2 setup to me as used on BMW's for around 25 years...
Ok, well it could be used to monitor spin since it knows the position, right?

Regardless, no other DCT trans SSP has opened up has had this so it was interesting to point out.
Sticky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2010, 03:39 PM   #15
SamE30e
6th Gear Member
 
SamE30e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Milton
Posts: 2,886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
Ok, well it could be used to monitor spin since it knows the position, right?

Regardless, no other DCT trans SSP has opened up has had this so it was interesting to point out.
Thats assuming it's not spinning at a different speed then the input shaft, like it would be when it's engaging. It's most likely just used for crank position or engine speed. Most cars use the ABS sensors to detect wheel spin.
__________________
85 325 - 2.8 PTE6262 VEMS.
SamE30e is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Maxbimmer Copyright 2001 - 2015