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Old 07-27-2009, 04:48 PM   #16
bmdbley'sBro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chromius View Post
LOL, That's just funny. for one, if you're stupid enough to actually allow them to take the samples, then you're either a) desperate, and no one else will give you a mortgage, and this is your last resort or b) just plain stupid and probably shouldn't be getting a mortgage anyway.
or C? u'r perfectly normal & have banked with that bank the majority of ur life,
and when u finally go for ur 1st mortgage they ask these things of u,
being ignorant of banking practices & or ethics, and ur rights in general, you go o.k

^thats a majority of people. a large percentage always just shrug their shoulders & go 'ok if authority wants it, it must be right & best for me.'

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Originally Posted by Fel View Post
That about sums it up..... they are cutting down on undesirable clientelle.
pol pot cut down on his 'undesirables' by mass murdering the whole educated middle class, thinking that this would purge his society, creating a blank slate from which to create a societal utopia.

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Originally Posted by Fel View Post
The same thing happens in the car insurance business, just not by the same means. "We don't want to insure males under 24.... what do we do? Skyrocket the rates for that group of people. If they don't like it, they'll go somewhere else. If they're stupid enough to pay such a premium, then fine we'll take 'em"

If they want to cut down on drug addicts taking out mortgages and then going broke on them, they can do so.... access to a mortgage is not a basic human right... we don't set those rules. They give us money, they can set the terms. If the consumer rejects their approach, they go bankrupt. That's how business works.
and the reality is there is no where else for the under 25's to go..system wide you will get raped.

profit is their motive i thinks, cause we have plenty of sub 25yr old drivers on the road. and we are only confident in the fact that they are paying alot for the 'law required' insurance, so as to enjoy the priveledge of 'free mobility' and the pursuit of earning of living & being members of society.

so maybe what they're really after is anyway to jack rates, cause again they don't actually want 'nobody on the road under 24'
what they want is oil co like profits.

oh our underwritters say ur in a high risk group cause of a pre-existing health condition
so we can't by law deny you but we can charge u 5x's the average rate, or some b.s
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Old 07-27-2009, 05:47 PM   #17
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like i said BM, when it becomes an issue of race and ethnicity, then people will cry out. But then it will be too late.

So let them strip away our freedoms one a time.

Oh by the way, the "heroin" addict, that is "pissing away" his income, MOST LIKELY DOESN"T HAVE the income, NOR the job to get a mortage.
They dont exactly hand out mortgages to people in Canada- they never did- thats why we didn't bust as bas as the US did.

**** my dad had to go through the banks lawyers, had to bring in a ton load of documents to prove he can support a mortgage, has a job, etc, to get a 300,000$ mortgage and he makes 120,000$ a year. Really does he need a drug test? Obviously not, BUT if we allow them to take a way 1 right at a time, pretty soon they will.

Whats next, genetic screening too?
Sounds almost like Gattica/
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:02 PM   #18
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You sure love to stretch...
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:17 PM   #19
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You sure love to stretch...
And the bank doesn't?
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:01 PM   #20
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As long as the market continues to go for it, it's not going to stop. Don't like it, don't go for it. Guess what? Most folks who have decent credit won't have to.
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:32 PM   #21
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I guess when they get to "wiretap us " legally, and read our emails legally, that will be okay too because if you dont like it, you dont have to write emails. I mean the market can dictate it right?
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:49 PM   #22
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If I can choose a provider that doesn't tap or read emails, then yes, I'd be fine with it. Yo forget - they have a choice here. They can go somewhere else. What you are equating it to is an uncontested invasion of privacy - not the same thing.
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Old 07-27-2009, 11:48 PM   #23
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It is the same thing. I fail to see how you dont realize this..

First this bank does it.
then next year another bank, and another, and another. Until pretty soon it is industry standard, MUCH like insurance rates being a pain in the ass for people under 25 years of age. Then youll need to do it for jobs too.

And people like you will keep touting well its their money, its fine, plus I have nothing to hide.

Then in a decade or two, when we get more advanced with Gene reading,etc, pretty soon they will take a blood sample too and map your DNA finger print and find out if you have any disposition to heart attacks, high blood pressure, etc. It will start at 1 bank, and slowly it will spread to the other banks because people like you will be okay with it. Eventually it will lead to jobs too. Maybe you wont be able to get a job unless your parents went through gene therapy to have their child - a perfect child... (check out Gattica by the way if you havent seen it)

Thats cool too though I guess?

So where do you draw the line? Oh wait, I get it, there is no line to draw because right now we aren't talking about that. We are looking at the NOW, and never mind having any idea about our future. By your logic, its the companies money, they shouldn't have to pay you to work for them if you dont agree to a DNA test!

sounds similar to what happened in the states.. Patriot act?


PS:

What happens when the provider is a monopoly? Much like Rogers, and Bell...What happens when thats the only insurance company in that area? Then what? Where is your free market then? Who are you going to go to next?

Maybe if you dont like it you can then leave the country?? Is that the next option? Maybe give up your citizenship?
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Old 07-28-2009, 08:24 AM   #24
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You're on a slippery slope...

I'd worry about the second a major bank adopts it.
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Old 07-28-2009, 09:17 AM   #25
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There are some seriously over paranoid people in this thread.

First off, you guys are acting like this is some fundamental right that's being violated here. Fact is, it's not. You don't have a right to a mortgage! It's the banks money, and they have the right to do what they want with it, and give it to whomever they choose.

If you don't like their policy, then go somewhere else, or don't get a mortgage and save for the house you want. That's a novel idea. That's what people used to do, then somehow people got it in their heads that they have a right to money for nothing. This is the typical way our society is going, with an unrealistic sense of entitlement. Where people are buying $500,000 homes when they should really only be able to afford a $150,000 home.

bmdbley'sBro, you said in the car insurance biz they all screw you over when your under 25, well that's simply not true. When I was under 25 the original insurance company I went with wanted to screw me over with high rates, but instead I went out and found a great insurance company that was quite reasonable.

And as for your first comment (sorry, I'm too lazy to quote), for those people that just "go along with it", ignorance is not an excuse. So I stick with my original statement, they're too stupid, and shouldn't have a mortgage anyway.

I'm also very surprised none of you are up in arms about the fact that life insurance company's have been doing this stuff for decades! Surprise surprise, people are still getting life insurance.

IF by slim chance all your paranoid delusions come true, and every bank in the country starts doing this, then I would suggest you start a bank that doesn't. You'll make a fortune. Then do you think the other banks will just let that potential profit fly out the window? No, they'll then adjust their policies accordingly. The market will self correct.
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:10 AM   #26
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You dont have a right to a job either.
You dont have a right to an education.
You dont have a right TO anything... I mean really if you look at it.

The only right you have, is to be treated like a human ****ing being, and not an animal.

Thats being paranoid?

How are you comparing life insurance, when the policy is directly correlated to the longevity of your life? LOL Give me a break.

Its not a free market economy, I dont know where you come up with these ideas. Make it harder and harder for the middle class to live I guess its alright?

Youre right, you dont need to own a home. We should just be a society of renters, renting from the rich. I guess thats the ultimate utopian society.

Where we wake up, and all of us have to pay rent, and own NOTHING.

PS: How do you plan on starting up a bank, mortgage company when A) Its regulated B) Its regulated by lobbyists and legistlature to make it impossible for you to create a bank? C) The Lobbyists of the other banks will shut you down before your application leaves the post office.
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:41 AM   #27
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You could start a credit union...Takes a shit load of work, but you could start one.

Then lets see how easily you give away the invested money, when your ass is on the line.

You make no sense with your "rights" argument, Sirex. Your right - you DON'T have a right to a job - you have to EARN it. When education is part of the taxes you pay, you have a FULL RIGHT to it, because everyone pays taxes, be it sales tax or income tax, etc.

Ahh the young - so full of idealism... Wait until the real world hits you - You'll get jaded pretty quick... or go postal... one of the two...
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:02 PM   #28
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Thats right, you have to earn it. Earn it with proof that you can do it. They still take a risk when hiring you, you could be a total flop.

Same idea holds true for getting a mortgage. You have to prove you can pay it back. A urine test doesn't prove shit. A bank account, and a stable job do.

This isn't the USA, where we give out loands to everyone and anyone. There are alot of steps to take to get a loan. And the bank isn't going to give you a loan for 300,000$ on a house valued at 40,000$. Then their is insurance as well. So really, the bank, credit union, w/e, has almost zero risk if tey do their homework:
a) does he have a job that can afford the monthly payments?
b) does he have a bank account thats been pretty stable/used properly? Does this person spend all his paycheque.

Again, please explain how a urine test makes any sense when you can prove you can pay the mortgage. When you can get insurance on it. And when you have the bank account to back up every statement you make?
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:18 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
You dont have a right to a job either.
Absolutely right. As Deep said, you have to earn it.
Quote:
You dont have a right to an education.
Actually you do in Canada
Quote:
You dont have a right TO anything... I mean really if you look at it.
Well, yeah, you do....see your next quote.
Quote:
The only right you have, is to be treated like a human ****ing being, and not an animal.
Quote:
How are you comparing life insurance, when the policy is directly correlated to the longevity of your life? LOL Give me a break.
I'm comparing it because it's exactly the same thing. From the bank's perspective, it's an investment. Just like life insurance is an investment for the insurance company. Do you think they offer it out of the goodness of their hearts? No, they're banking on you paying more in premiums then the policy will have to pay out, so to minimize their risk, they do physical's and will reject people who they think will die before they've made their money.

With the mortgage, all their doing is the same thing, protecting their investment by not loaning to high risk people.

Quote:
Its not a free market economy, I dont know where you come up with these ideas. Make it harder and harder for the middle class to live I guess its alright?

Youre right, you dont need to own a home. We should just be a society of renters, renting from the rich. I guess thats the ultimate utopian society.
No, you're right, everyone should own a home. That would actually be a pretty good government policy.....oh wait they tried that in the U.S. LOOK WHERE IT GOT THEM.

Quote:
PS: How do you plan on starting up a bank, mortgage company when A) Its regulated B) Its regulated by lobbyists and legistlature to make it impossible for you to create a bank? C) The Lobbyists of the other banks will shut you down before your application leaves the post office.
Have you tried?
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:22 PM   #30
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youre right its not the USA. ITs canada. and our banks are still standing. Because they are smart about their loans. Not becuase they do urine tests.
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