Click to go to Forum Home Click to go to maXbimmer Home

Go Back   maXbimmer Forums > Misc > Off-topic
User Name
Password


Welcome to Maxbimmer.com!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-19-2009, 10:50 AM   #16
Miguel
...Delt Smash
 
Miguel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dudebridge
Posts: 10,882


Quote:
Originally Posted by daytona View Post
At the Ingram drop off I seen a elderly italian women gave hell to two fat striking workers stopping her from dropping off more than 3 bags,she had maybe at most 5 bags.The scum strikers blocked her from dropping off the other two bags and she yelled at them in english and italian and everyone behind her started to yell at workers also.The union rep there tried to explain their "issues" and she told them to "F off".Really come on she was waiting for over an hour and she must have been at least 70 years old,why does unions think they are entitled to items when %90 of the other residence are suffering thru a recession.Yes Miller screwed up by giving the rest of the unions a raise during a recession but it must stop some where.%70 of the city budget goes to wages.
Really? Where do you get this crap?
Wanna show me that in the budget?
here you go: http://www.toronto.ca/budget2009/index.htm
__________________
Miguel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2009, 11:28 AM   #17
sirex
King Sirex
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,850
its funny because I hear the word Recession passed around by everyone and their grandma now days.

It seems the justification for NOT giving raise or passing a new "fair" contract to the city workers is because of the recession and HOW DARE these union workers ask for a raise in a bad economy.

What was Millers, and the City Councillors justification in giving themselves a raise this year? What was the raise they gave them selves? 5%? 5% and they voted on it THEMSELVES, without our approval?

I guess our aproval was in voting for them, so they can do whatever they want now?

Fantastic.

Its funny because the average salary of the councillor/ Mayor, is probably between 100,000 and 150,000$, The average salaray for a city worker is between 35,000$ and 55,000$, But a 5% raise in justified on a 100,000$ salary, but a 1% raise on a city salaray of 40,000$ is GREED?

Nice.
__________________
sirex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2009, 12:43 PM   #18
BlitzSix
6 Speed
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,405
Send a message via AIM to BlitzSix Send a message via MSN to BlitzSix
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
its funny because I hear the word Recession passed around by everyone and their grandma now days.

It seems the justification for NOT giving raise or passing a new "fair" contract to the city workers is because of the recession and HOW DARE these union workers ask for a raise in a bad economy.

What was Millers, and the City Councillors justification in giving themselves a raise this year? What was the raise they gave them selves? 5%? 5% and they voted on it THEMSELVES, without our approval?

I guess our aproval was in voting for them, so they can do whatever they want now?

Fantastic.

Its funny because the average salary of the councillor/ Mayor, is probably between 100,000 and 150,000$, The average salaray for a city worker is between 35,000$ and 55,000$, But a 5% raise in justified on a 100,000$ salary, but a 1% raise on a city salaray of 40,000$ is GREED?

Nice.
Do you even know what they're striking about? It's not about a raise, it's due to them wanting ot use their "bank" of sick days to retire early (or something like that) which is ridiculous as they are SICK days, not save-them-up-and-go-on-vacation days.
BlitzSix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2009, 08:17 PM   #19
sirex
King Sirex
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,850
Do you know?

Its not just about Sick days. Its also about Job Security, wage rates, and everything in between. They re-negotiate a NEW contract, they change the old contract, they make changes, and both sides agree with it, and when the 2 sides agree to a contract, the union members vote for it.
__________________

Last edited by sirex; 07-19-2009 at 08:20 PM.
sirex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2009, 08:53 PM   #20
Rice
1st Gear Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 38
Ok so because the mayor and his goons gave themself a raise and the union people didn't get their "share" they decided to hold the city hostage until they get their "share" of the loot. WTF man, in bad time 90% of the population didn't get a raise for the last couple of years, they got their benefits cut or "deferred". What makes these union fools think they're more special than everyone else and get their demands met in bad times at the expense of other hard working folks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
its funny because I hear the word Recession passed around by everyone and their grandma now days.

It seems the justification for NOT giving raise or passing a new "fair" contract to the city workers is because of the recession and HOW DARE these union workers ask for a raise in a bad economy.

What was Millers, and the City Councillors justification in giving themselves a raise this year? What was the raise they gave them selves? 5%? 5% and they voted on it THEMSELVES, without our approval?

I guess our aproval was in voting for them, so they can do whatever they want now?

Fantastic.

Its funny because the average salary of the councillor/ Mayor, is probably between 100,000 and 150,000$, The average salaray for a city worker is between 35,000$ and 55,000$, But a 5% raise in justified on a 100,000$ salary, but a 1% raise on a city salaray of 40,000$ is GREED?

Nice.
Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2009, 09:19 PM   #21
sirex
King Sirex
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,850
First, they didn't just go On strike because they felt like it. They went on strike because their contract just happened to go on renewal this year. It would make no difference if it landed in a year of great prosperity, the city is run like a business, they would have gone on strike regardless just to save money.

Second, why should they give in to a shitty contract? Recessions dont last forever. So why should they settle for a shit contract and be stuck with it for 5 years? So that Miller looks like a champ by shafting 20,000 employees?

Third, if the economy is so shit why on earth are you OKAY with giving the councillors raises, and what ever else they want, but the real working man behind the show gets shafted?

Also again, on another point, the whole sick day discussion; Im curious how this works, or how it affects us now. Because it doesn't. Not everyone retires at the same time. Its a slow progress, and not everyone Banks all of their sick days, etc, etc. So again, these "demands" which are MORE Long term then anything else, have almost ZERO effect and have zero cause on the Current econmic crisis, these are Long term problems.

Which is what alot of you dont understand. you look at it in the term of IN THE NOW!, they dont look at it like that. If youre working for the city as a career, you want to be there for 40 years, Getting the shaft on a contract now, means the difference between being loyal, or just quiting. I*t makes a huge difference in quality of work/workers, etc.
__________________

Last edited by sirex; 07-19-2009 at 11:19 PM.
sirex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2009, 11:25 PM   #22
propr'one
op sucks cock
 
propr'one's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: T.
Posts: 17,810
Send a message via MSN to propr'one
i dont care about the quality of employees picking up my trash. Its not hard. I've been doing it for a few weeks now, and i'm a ****ing moron, and dont have any problems getting it done.
__________________
I run a canadian HID kit company, if you have any questions about hid kits in canada or would like to check out our products please contact me here: http://absolutehid.ca

Hot: 2001 Estoril M RoadsterZCP 19's michelin supersports, ZHP knob, JL 8W3
Cold: 2002 TiAg M3 6mt ZCP 19's michelin supersports, deoranged, dechromed, led tails, ZHP knob, UUC SS v3, GROM, OEM 18's w310's,
Fun: 2006 YZF-R6, black
propr'one is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 12:04 AM   #23
sirex
King Sirex
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,850
so much hate
__________________
sirex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 10:28 AM   #24
Rice
1st Gear Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
so much hate
I really don't think it's hate that we're talking about here but just disgust. They are pretty much robbing the public with these kind of demands. So the mayor and his councellors are fooked up by giving themself these kind of raises, doesn't mean that these union can and should jump on the bandwagon and use the general public as bargaining chips.
Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 11:55 AM   #25
BlitzSix
6 Speed
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,405
Send a message via AIM to BlitzSix Send a message via MSN to BlitzSix
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
First, they didn't just go On strike because they felt like it. They went on strike because their contract just happened to go on renewal this year. It would make no difference if it landed in a year of great prosperity, the city is run like a business, they would have gone on strike regardless just to save money.

Second, why should they give in to a shitty contract? Recessions dont last forever. So why should they settle for a shit contract and be stuck with it for 5 years? So that Miller looks like a champ by shafting 20,000 employees?

Third, if the economy is so shit why on earth are you OKAY with giving the councillors raises, and what ever else they want, but the real working man behind the show gets shafted?

Also again, on another point, the whole sick day discussion; Im curious how this works, or how it affects us now. Because it doesn't. Not everyone retires at the same time. Its a slow progress, and not everyone Banks all of their sick days, etc, etc. So again, these "demands" which are MORE Long term then anything else, have almost ZERO effect and have zero cause on the Current econmic crisis, these are Long term problems.

Which is what alot of you dont understand. you look at it in the term of IN THE NOW!, they dont look at it like that. If youre working for the city as a career, you want to be there for 40 years, Getting the shaft on a contract now, means the difference between being loyal, or just quiting. I*t makes a huge difference in quality of work/workers, etc.
Okay let's get one thing straight. Stop talking like these employees are working for low wages or something. They are making a ridiculous amount of money for the work they do. That's why people have a problem. This has gone BEYOND fair wages, all the way too "you can't be serious" level of ridiculousness.

Correct me if I'm wrong (with a proper source please, not just you typing that I'm wrong), but the sick days was the MAIN reason they went on strike. And sorry, but they are being completely unreasonable with this. Again, these are government workers we're talking about. We all know that government workers get treated VERY VERY well for what they do, but they STILL want more, and act entitled to it. Nobody has it as easy as government workers, that's why everyone wants a government job. The work is easy, you get 20 coffee breaks a day, good pay, you basically can't get fired from most of these, and benefits... yeah..

The other problem I have with the garbage workers striking is that it's UNSKILLED LABOR. ANYONE CAN DO IT. When you have a job that quite literally pretty much anyone off the street can do - sorry - but you can't expect a huge salary - and honestly they make A LOT more than really they should. I'm not trying to say that to be an ass or "omg they're just garbage workers" but this is how the economy works.

You know why American car companies are going bankrupt? Partially because they have to pay like $35 an hour for a simple factory job that a retard can do. Why do they have to pay that? Because they unions are unreasonable. Yeah, when you are forced to pay an unrealistic, enormous wages to people who do simple tasks that takes a toll on your business. It completely ****s up the economy when the cost of labor is artificially driven up. Sorry but someone doing a mindless task doesn't deserve $35 an hour.

And, unless they actually gain skill and move onto other (more demanding) jobs, they DO NOT deserve crazy seniority and automatic raises etc.

Again, not trying to say this to be an ass, but when you just drive up the wage to do simple tasks to prices of SKILLED labor, yeah, that's not fair, and the economy reflects that.... it's unnatural for them to get paid that much..

Apologies for going slightly off topic..
BlitzSix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 01:02 PM   #26
atm2000
3rd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: toronto
Posts: 328
I fail to realise how you justify resposibilitties of an union vs responsibilitites of the mayor/councillers in regards to pay raises. It is a failacity to assume they both go in parrallel.

In the "real-world" a raise is not an expected right, you need to work for that pay raise - this is reflected in your job performance, not your seniority, sick-days, rank, or privilege of your position in an union. Pay raises are not a right, you need to work for it - is this so backward that you can't comprehend? No one has a job for life these days, get over that mentality. People move, people adadpt to life changes, this is the reality faced by people working in the private sector.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
First, they didn't just go On strike because they felt like it. They went on strike because their contract just happened to go on renewal this year. It would make no difference if it landed in a year of great prosperity, the city is run like a business, they would have gone on strike regardless just to save money.

Second, why should they give in to a shitty contract? Recessions dont last forever. So why should they settle for a shit contract and be stuck with it for 5 years? So that Miller looks like a champ by shafting 20,000 employees?

Third, if the economy is so shit why on earth are you OKAY with giving the councillors raises, and what ever else they want, but the real working man behind the show gets shafted?

Also again, on another point, the whole sick day discussion; Im curious how this works, or how it affects us now. Because it doesn't. Not everyone retires at the same time. Its a slow progress, and not everyone Banks all of their sick days, etc, etc. So again, these "demands" which are MORE Long term then anything else, have almost ZERO effect and have zero cause on the Current econmic crisis, these are Long term problems.

Which is what alot of you dont understand. you look at it in the term of IN THE NOW!, they dont look at it like that. If youre working for the city as a career, you want to be there for 40 years, Getting the shaft on a contract now, means the difference between being loyal, or just quiting. I*t makes a huge difference in quality of work/workers, etc.
atm2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 01:10 PM   #27
europrince
6th Gear Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North York
Posts: 6,729
I'm not at all surprised that Sirex is in favour of the strike.

They missed two pay cheques now. Let's see how many more they miss before they come to their senses.
europrince is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 02:17 PM   #28
sirex
King Sirex
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,850
The automotive industry failed because of mis management and poor quality product in a drive to create more profit, rather then good quality.. Not because of its well payed workers.

Not anyone off the street gets a "government job." If its really easy bullshit work, why dont you get a job their then? The Garbage workers are PART of the union, they are not the only ones on strike. There are by-law enforcment offiers on strike.

There are amublance drivers on strike.

There are health managment employees on strike.

And best of all, to really take the city hostage, their are garbage workers on strike.

They are in the same union.


Dont give me the BS anyone off the street can do it. Youre not a biologist are you? Because Im pretty sure you need to have an education to be the person that goes into restuarants and makes sure they are clean and following regulations and not creating hazards enviroments for bacteria to thrive in.

Youre not a qualified paramedic are you? You know you gotta to school to become a paramedic, you know that right? Not any clown off the street can do that, you know that right?

Are you an engineers? Because I think you gotta go to school to be qualified to dictate Ontario Building Code to contractors, and builders.

Are you certified to operate heavy machinery? I think you gotta pay alot of money to get certification in operating heavy machinery, LIke the ones used at the Garbage facilties to move your garbage around.

What you see is Garbage people on strike because thats what smells the worse. But you seem to forget the other 24,000 employees that have very many vital roles in the city that take alot of hard work and an education to get. This is exactly why I keep saying, you have NO clue what youre talking about, nor do you seem to have any idea on how unions work, or how contracts work for that matter.


Your simple logic is that "garbage pick up is an easy job, WTF!!11" Yes it is, BUT its not JUST THE GArbage workers on strike. Why dont PAramedics deserve better contracts? They work hard, and do a good job, probably some of the best paramedics in the world work in Toronto, they dont deserve a competitive wage?

Why not? The cost of living went up this year, dont they deserve a wage to help cope with that? I guess not.

I guess your logic is "I pick up garbage for the last 2 weeks now, its easy as shit" THATS GREAT, but its not just the GARBAGE pickup people that are on strike.
__________________

Last edited by sirex; 07-20-2009 at 02:25 PM.
sirex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 02:35 PM   #29
StikiGreenZ
6th Gear Member
 
StikiGreenZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Milton, ON
Posts: 1,602
Send a message via MSN to StikiGreenZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
Why not? The cost of living went up this year, dont they deserve a wage to help cope with that? I guess not.
So you have all the answers eh? How much did the cost of living go up this year?

Here's your answer:
Consumer prices fell 0.3% in June compared with June 2008, following a 0.1% increase in May. It was the first 12-month decline in the all-items Consumer Price Index (CPI) since November 1994.

Source: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/subjects-su...pi-ipc-eng.htm

They have been offered a 1% increase this year, which from what I'm reading, falls in line (or exceeds) inflation. So everyone should get raises when the times are good and cost of living is rising. But when times are bad, according to you, we should just suck it up?

I fail to understand why you compare garbage men (a job anyone can do) to city councillors. Maybe they did a good job last year to deserve it. As a web designer, I received a 5% raise last year, does that mean garbage men, sewer cleaners and janitors should also get that raise? Because my hard work that earned my company more profit is somehow related to them?

When a garbage man (or city worker) invents or comes up with a way to increase efficiency or reduce costs or make the city more profitable, then he should get a raise. Until then, he should shut up, do the job HE WILLINGLY applied for, or quit and find something else. I cannot stand these people that take on jobs knowing the salary, only to strike and complain a year later.
__________________
-

BMW 645i - Black on Red
Range Rover Sport - Black on Black
StikiGreenZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 04:01 PM   #30
sirex
King Sirex
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by StikiGreenZ View Post
So you have all the answers eh? How much did the cost of living go up this year?

Here's your answer:
Consumer prices fell 0.3% in June compared with June 2008, following a 0.1% increase in May. It was the first 12-month decline in the all-items Consumer Price Index (CPI) since November 1994.

Source: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/subjects-su...pi-ipc-eng.htm

They have been offered a 1% increase this year, which from what I'm reading, falls in line (or exceeds) inflation. So everyone should get raises when the times are good and cost of living is rising. But when times are bad, according to you, we should just suck it up?

I fail to understand why you compare garbage men (a job anyone can do) to city councillors. Maybe they did a good job last year to deserve it. As a web designer, I received a 5% raise last year, does that mean garbage men, sewer cleaners and janitors should also get that raise? Because my hard work that earned my company more profit is somehow related to them?

When a garbage man (or city worker) invents or comes up with a way to increase efficiency or reduce costs or make the city more profitable, then he should get a raise. Until then, he should shut up, do the job HE WILLINGLY applied for, or quit and find something else. I cannot stand these people that take on jobs knowing the salary, only to strike and complain a year later.

Maybe you live under a rock, I dont know, but property taxes go up, and up and up for the city of toronto. new fees all the time. Toronto is an expensive city to live in. The cost of living goes up 2% a year, thats a fact.

I fail to understand how you cant comprehend anything other then "garbage men" the garbage men are not the only people on strike. Its a union. A union is a large body of people so that when wage rates are not falling in line, or when an employer doesn't want to follow rules, or give good contracts, the ENTIRE union goes on strike, EVEN if one branch is not really all that affected by the contract.

Again, learn about unions since you seemingly know nothing about what youre talking about.

As for raises, and pay raises, etc, its a stepping system, to get the max salary you gotta be there for at least 10 years in some cases, if not more. You start at the bottom sallary and then you go up. When you get to the top tier, you dont go any higher. The sky is not the limit like it is in private work setting. There is a sallary cap that you are expected to get after you do your time in that system. It has its PROS and CONS- the pro being you get a "wage increase" every year or so, the con be "once you hit slaray cap for that job, you dont get more"

Again you have no clue what youre talking about. You dont just start AT the TOP salary. They start you off in a semi decent pay, that gradually becomes a decent pay.

Teaching jobs are the same. You are promoted for being a loyal and good worker. Its completely different then private enterprise where Profit is the bottom dollar. How can a teacher create profits for a public school system? By your flawed logic, a teacher should retain the same wage he starts at for the rest of his life. Well people wont go to that job if the salary is 30,000$ a year for the rest of your life. BUT if I tell you you start at 30,000$ a year, and in 10 years will be making 80,000$ a year, That makes it a lot more competitive doesn't it?


Dont compare apples to pineapples.
__________________

Last edited by sirex; 07-20-2009 at 04:07 PM.
sirex is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Maxbimmer Copyright 2001 - 2015