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Old 06-30-2009, 04:45 PM   #16
davericher20
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dude I've been on a train that goes over 1800 miles per hour............250kms? (yawn)
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Some people have serious track experience from the cruise, so what is fast to you, isn't fast to them.
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Old 06-30-2009, 04:54 PM   #17
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^^what train is that?
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Old 06-30-2009, 05:06 PM   #18
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A meteorite that called itself a train.

Broken and Tamed. Caught it before it hit the mountain back in '06
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Some people have serious track experience from the cruise, so what is fast to you, isn't fast to them.
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:49 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davericher20 View Post
A meteorite that called itself a train.

Broken and Tamed. Caught it before it hit the mountain back in '06
So it was you and your train that broke the mountain's back?
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Old 06-30-2009, 11:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_7 View Post
lol are you serious

from Wiki:

The record runs took place on a 140 km section of track 1 on the LGV Est, usually heading west, between kilometer posts 264 (town of Prény) and 120 (near the Champagne-Ardenne TGV station). This section of the LGV was chosen for its vertical profile and gentle curves, with favorable downhill segments leading to the highest speeds between kilometer posts 195 and 191, near the border between the Meuse and Marne departments. The track superelevation was increased to support higher speeds...Several measurement stations were installed along the test tracks to monitor stresses in the track and ballast, noise, aerodynamic effects, and catenary dynamics. Between kilometer posts 223 and 167, where speeds exceeded 500 km/h, the track was under close surveillance.
That's like saying the road that the scc ultimate aero beat the veyrons record on was a "specialized road"... no it wasn't, it was just a nice long strip of relatively straight and flat highway in West Richland, WA.

You can say that the track is specialized in that it has design features (ie increased superelevation) that support high speed trains, but it was not specially designed for that singular high speed run.

The conditions were ideal, not specialized.
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Old 07-01-2009, 01:07 AM   #21
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Gimme 20 gears with my choice of ratios and I can pull that off in my B25.
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Old 07-01-2009, 01:08 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by davericher20 View Post
dude I've been on a train that goes over 1800 miles per hour............250kms? (yawn)
Dude I am the train.
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Old 07-01-2009, 10:07 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by BMW_7 View Post
lol are you serious

Of course the Sapsan is going to be slower. After all it's running on the same track that was used by other high speed overnight trains like the Krasnaya Strela. Still, with the trip time of around 3 hours from Moscow to St. Petersburg it's nothing to sneeze at.

Russia needs this badly.. with moscow's population of 10mil, and st. petersburg's 5 mil, I can see this becoming one of the most heavily used corridors in the world.

Go Russia!


its like people dont think when they post. I said non specialized tracks, as in, its a normal commuter train that goes that fast, not one with scientists pushing the boundaries on a straight away.. The only other train in the world that goes 400+ km is the Maglev trains in Japan, on a special magnetic track that is dedicated to that TRAIN alone.

good post btw BMW
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Old 07-01-2009, 10:10 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Dinan_M5 View Post
That's like saying the road that the scc ultimate aero beat the veyrons record on was a "specialized road"... no it wasn't, it was just a nice long strip of relatively straight and flat highway in West Richland, WA.

You can say that the track is specialized in that it has design features (ie increased superelevation) that support high speed trains, but it was not specially designed for that singular high speed run.

The conditions were ideal, not specialized.

Dude thinking at all? Youve completely missed the point. Thats like saying the SCC ultimate and Veyron were racing and achieved their top speeds on a highway RAMMED WITH TRAFFIC. Thats what its comparing too.

What does that have to do with a regular commuter train? THey would never push that train to 500 km/h with passengers on board. They do in Japan though.
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Old 07-01-2009, 11:31 AM   #25
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So it was you and your train that broke the mountain's back?
yes, my train is my lover and we did our own rendition of brokeback mountain.
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Some people have serious track experience from the cruise, so what is fast to you, isn't fast to them.
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Old 07-01-2009, 11:37 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by sirex View Post
Dude thinking at all? Youve completely missed the point. Thats like saying the SCC ultimate and Veyron were racing and achieved their top speeds on a highway RAMMED WITH TRAFFIC. Thats what its comparing too.

What does that have to do with a regular commuter train? THey would never push that train to 500 km/h with passengers on board. They do in Japan though.
I wouldn't say I missed the point, let me summarize:

You said
Quote:
do you really know any trains that go faster then that on NON Specialized tracks? Because I haven't seen any.
I mentioned that record setting run in France and said that in my opinion that track is not really specialized

BMW_7 disagreed and quoted a Wikipedia entry that described the section of track that the record was set on highlighting the following:
  • This section of the LGV was chosen for its vertical profile and gentle curves
  • with favorable downhill segments
  • Between kilometer posts 223 and 167, where speeds exceeded 500 km/h, the track was under close surveillance.

I then commented on the fact that with exception to the track having increased superelevation to safely sustain higher speeds in cornering that the things BMW_7 highlighted such as gentle curves and favorable downhill segments do not make the track "specialized". Those are just attributes of an ideal section of track to set a top speed record on. This was where I brought in the SCC comparison to further the distinction between ideal and specialized. If you wanted to attempt a top speed record in a car would you do it on a twisty mountain road or a long straight strip of level road? Both roads are constructed in a similar fashion using the same materials and technology in the same way that for the LGV (from wikipedia)
Quote:
the tracklaying process is not particularly specialized to high-speed lines; the same general technique is applicable to any track that uses continuous welded rail.
The original discussion was never about a regular commuter train, or whether or not they would go 500km/h with passengers on board, it was about trains going faster than 250km/h on "non-specialized" track.

If I've missed the point then I'm sorry, but in my defense you failed to make that point clear in you original post.
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Old 07-01-2009, 12:36 PM   #27
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my point was pretty clear, following the idea that we are talking commuter trains with passengers, NOT TOP SPEED RECORDS on discovery channel. How you compare the two makes no sense to me..

This thread is about a commuter train doing 250 km/h and people posting saying "OMG THATS A FAIL TRAIN FOR GOING SO SLOW." I stated, do you know any commuter trains OTHER then the specialized rail systems that use dedicated lines for high speed trains? Then you quoted a world record train, that has nothing to do with the discussion at all because I never said I wanted to know World Record speeds, I Want to see COMMUTER TRAINS WITH PASSENGERS THAT ATTAIN Speeds of greater then 300 km/h on STANDARD tracks.

you never answered my question.

Do you know any High speed commuter trains that do not use specialized tracks, that attain really fast speeds, that are not maglev, and are not on dedicated rail lines. Sure the process of making the track might be the same, but Its one thing to be on your own dedicated line oinly for that train type.

This Russian train is a fast train, and runs on pre-existing track from my understanding, which is a win for me.
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Old 07-01-2009, 12:38 PM   #28
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Old 07-01-2009, 02:24 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
my point was pretty clear, following the idea that we are talking commuter trains with passengers, NOT TOP SPEED RECORDS on discovery channel. How you compare the two makes no sense to me..

This thread is about a commuter train doing 250 km/h and people posting saying "OMG THATS A FAIL TRAIN FOR GOING SO SLOW." I stated, do you know any commuter trains OTHER then the specialized rail systems that use dedicated lines for high speed trains? Then you quoted a world record train, that has nothing to do with the discussion at all because I never said I wanted to know World Record speeds, I Want to see COMMUTER TRAINS WITH PASSENGERS THAT ATTAIN Speeds of greater then 300 km/h on STANDARD tracks.

you never answered my question.

Do you know any High speed commuter trains that do not use specialized tracks, that attain really fast speeds, that are not maglev, and are not on dedicated rail lines. Sure the process of making the track might be the same, but Its one thing to be on your own dedicated line oinly for that train type.

This Russian train is a fast train, and runs on pre-existing track from my understanding, which is a win for me.
Well obviously today where there is a dedicated line available it will be used, but there are still many routes in Europe that run high speed on pre-existing track. Furthermore there are no trains going 300km/h on pre-existing track, the track would have to have been updated for that to be possible. From Wikipedia..

Quote:
The UIC (International Union of Railways) defines high-speed rail as services which regularly operate at or above 250 km/h on new tracks, or 200 km/h on existing tracks. A number of characteristics are common to most high-speed rail systems. Most are electrically driven via overhead lines, although this is not necessarily a defining aspect and other forms of propulsion, such as diesel locomotives may be used, as on Britain's HST services. A definitive aspect is the use of continuous welded rail which reduces track vibrations and discrepancies between rail segments enough to allow trains to pass at speeds in excess 200 km/h.
You are right though, the commuter services will not operate at 500km/h that was just a test run speed record, typical services are around 320km/h

In terms of this russian train service running on standard, pre-existing track (from wikipedia)
Quote:
The current maximum speed on the line is 200 km/h; the fastest train takes 4h 30min. However, construction works have been under way since 2004 which will take it to 250 km/h. These are to be completed by 2009. The future trainsets are already able to operate at 300 km/h. These are a widenened version of the Siemens Velaro 3rd generation ICE train, similar to the CRH3 in China.
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