whats better? FI or NA? - Page 2

Foc us · 03-02-2003, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gamite
This lil focus told me once....

ask all honduh guys....they'll never say they need displacement, they just need the TEC

Jon@Bimmersport · 03-02-2003, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Foc us
ask all honduh guys....they'll never say they need displacement, they just need the TEC

TEC? are u kidding me..go on torontocivics.com and see how many times "theres no replacement for displacement"..no one wants the lil 1.6L sir block, they want 2.0L blocks..it aint a lot i know..but for a dinky civic it is

moerom · 03-02-2003, 11:44 PM

With the proper amount of maintenance, a good fuel system, forged internals, and a good engine cooling system, a FI engine will last just as long as a comparable N/A engine.

FI all day baby!!!

**SickFinga** · 03-02-2003, 11:56 PM

e46_lover, ask Randy, SuperM3 and the guy from evolution
All of them had m3 engine FI and all of them were blown.

Soldo · 03-03-2003, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SickFinga
e46_lover, ask Randy, SuperM3 and the guy from evolution
All of them had m3 engine FI and all of them were blown.

okay, i FINALLY got a chance to enter this BATTLE, like i was saying in the LONG RUN a NA engine will last longer and with more realiability than a FI, look at it this way, how wouldn't it since your FORCING power into it!!!!

if randy's engine was NA to the same amount of power as it was supercharged, it wouldn't have BLOWN, thats for sure!!
NA ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!

Autotechnica · 03-03-2003, 12:45 AM

If you aimed to get the same power from a 4 banger like a 318, say 160 RWHP, I'd say all motor is always more reliable. Think about what forced induction does to your engine. It uses forced compressed air to push down on your pistons, I'm no expert on FI, but I've talked to many experts on all motor race engines and they have told me all motor is definitely more reliable.

Bryan

Soldo · 03-03-2003, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Autotechnica
If you aimed to get the same power from a 4 banger like a 318, say 160 RWHP, I'd say all motor is always more reliable. Think about what forced induction does to your engine. It uses forced compressed air to push down on your pistons, I'm no expert on FI, but I've talked to many experts on all motor race engines and they have told me all motor is definitely more reliable.

Bryan

thank you bryan, WELL SAID!!!!
see, it just doesn't make sense to have AIR PUSHED into the engine and the ENGINE being as realiable as a NA!!
also, look at the fastest cars
MCLAREN, BMW ENIGNE,
6.0L V12
627bhp (i think)
TOP SPEED 391km/h (a.k.a. VERY FUKIN FAST!!)
NA ( OBVIOUSLY!!!!)
thanks for coming out JON!!

moerom · 03-03-2003, 01:33 AM

Its not really compressed air pushing down on your pistons. More air is mixed with more fuel which creates more combustion which gives your pistons more force to move up and down etc...

This raises two problems:

1.) temperature
2.) physical stresses on engine components as a result of this 'force'

and the solution to both problems are:

Forged internals

F/I can be just as reliable as N/A

Jon@Bimmersport · 03-03-2003, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SickFinga
e46_lover, ask Randy, SuperM3 and the guy from evolution
All of them had m3 engine FI and all of them were blown.

superM3's motor is blown? i didnt know that....Randy's block was stock, thats why..it wasnt meant to run boost (yet). it depends how you treat the motor too, i dont know the guy from evolution or even superM3 well, but without proper warming and cooling..FI isnt good...you cant say slapping on a turbo or s/c makes it unreliable just like that, it depends how (or if) the engine is tuned, same with fuel.

lets compare, an S2000 which is 11:1compresion or a E36 M3 motor (10.5 i think), both same HP, but different compression...which is better for reliability? the BMW obviously, because i know the motor isnt as highsprung....11:1 compression is really high, as the bmw isnt as high...

since everyone in here has an NA motor except moerom, maybe we should get some more FI experts? empowerd? djcontra? m50e30 i know knows about FI too since he wants a turbo kit for his car.

NA isnt the best situation, it all depends on what stage the motor is at, stock M3 NA will be way more reliable than a s/c M3 both stock internals.

moerom · 03-03-2003, 01:44 AM

Merc builds F/I cars.
Porsche builds F/I cars.
Toyota built F/I cars.
Audi builds F/I cars.

All four have incredibly reliable machines. If an engine is properly built up in the bottom end (crank, rods, pistons) and top end (heads, valvetrain) and the block is iron, the motor will last a very long time if maintained properly.

For example, 2JZ-GTE (Supra TT mkiV motor) STOCK can take 22-25 psi. Its an iron block, with completely forged internals. Those motors are considered some of the best the world has ever seen.

Jon@Bimmersport · 03-03-2003, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by moerom
Merc builds F/I cars.
Porsche builds F/I cars.
Toyota built F/I cars.
Audi builds F/I cars.

All four have incredibly reliable machines. If an engine is properly built up in the bottom end (crank, rods, pistons) and top end (heads, valvetrain) and the block is iron, the motor will last a very long time if maintained properly.

For example, 2JZ-GTE (Supra TT mkiV motor) STOCK can take 22-25 psi. Its an iron block, with completely forged internals. Those motors are considered some of the best the world has ever seen.

dont forget mitsubishi! the evo7 lancer is running 19psi of boost, can be pushed hard all day long as very reliable..from what i've read about it.

Autotechnica · 03-03-2003, 02:02 AM

Yeah but I'm sure Jon was asking FI in terms of performance. When you talk about most Mercedies and other car's w/ turbo's from the factory it's usually not for performance, they simply use the turbo for the job of forcing the pistons down. And what PSI's are you talking about? If your talking about getting the same performance in terms of HP and torque, I'm positive all motor is better for reliability. And although an all motor engine w/ the same power output as a turbo motor would be more expensive, it is way more reliable.

And Jon, no Mitsu car's are reliable.. all their turbocharged car's are amazing fast, but they are POS in terms of reliability. Just ask any Talon/Eclipse owner.

Bryan

Jon@Bimmersport · 03-03-2003, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Autotechnica
Yeah but I'm sure Jon was asking FI in terms of performance. When you talk about most Mercedies and other car's w/ turbo's from the factory it's usually not for performance, they simply use the turbo for the job of forcing the pistons down. And what PSI's are you talking about? If your talking about getting the same performance in terms of HP and torque, I'm positive all motor is better for reliability. And although an all motor engine w/ the same power output as a turbo motor would be more expensive, it is way more reliable.

And Jon, no Mitsu car's are reliable.. all their turbocharged car's are amazing fast, but they are POS in terms of reliability. Just ask any Talon/Eclipse owner.

Bryan

yea, bryan, please read my first post? i said about reliablity...not performance only...

so your saying your friend's GSR which is about 250hp is as reliable as say E36 M3?

Autotechnica · 03-03-2003, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by E46_lover
yea, bryan, please read my first post? i said about reliablity...not performance only...

so your saying your friend's GSR which is about 250hp is as reliable as say E36 M3?

Jon,

That post wasn't directed at you.. it was directed at moerom because he was talking about the use of turbo's in stock cars. But when I read your post I'm pretty sure you meant performance or aftermarket turbo's not like a turbo disel Mercedies.

I don't get how you can compare a race spec GS-R w/ a stock M3, one is 4 cyl, the other 6 cyl. And they are both all motor. For a 250WHP GS-R an all motor GS-R is more reliable than a turbo GS-R. And the GS-R runs 12's, what does the M3 run? I'm talking about 250WHP and a 10,000RPM rev limit. So yeah I think it's very reliable for a motor w/ a 13.5 compression ratio.

Bry

Jon@Bimmersport · 03-03-2003, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Autotechnica
Jon,

That post wasn't directed at you.. it was directed at moerom because he was talking about the use of turbo's in stock cars. But when I read your post I'm pretty sure you meant performance or aftermarket turbo's not like a turbo disel Mercedies.

I don't get how you can compare a race spec GS-R w/ a stock M3, one is 4 cyl, the other 6 cyl. And they are both all motor. For a 250WHP GS-R an all motor GS-R is more reliable than a turbo GS-R. And the GS-R runs 12's, what does the M3 run? I'm talking about 250WHP and a 10,000RPM rev limit.

Bry

randy's friend got a full JUN B16, its very fast (i've been in it) and i almost shit my pants...but i doubt its reliable...think about it...we just had like a 4way on MSN, which was crazy..so let me post it here

as darkrider said, NA supra, TT supra..both are as reliable..its just the turbo that isnt lasting forever, after 100+ km u gotta change it