Click to go to Forum Home Click to go to maXbimmer Home

Go Back   maXbimmer Forums > maXimum Tech > 3 Series > E30 (1983 - 1991)
User Name
Password


Welcome to Maxbimmer.com!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-19-2009, 11:40 PM   #1
matty.dc
5th Gear Member
 
matty.dc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,108
Send a message via MSN to matty.dc
Adapters

Sorry for being a pain in the ass about the questions with the spacers, but would a 25mm adapter like this be alright to run ? heres the link as well......http://www.ezaccessory.com/Wheel_Ada.../4100-4100.htm

Thanks

Matt
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 4100-4100-2.jpg (15.1 KB, 65 views)
__________________

1987 325is(Midnight Tuning Tuned OBD I S52) - Current Summer Car
2012 Hyundai Veloster Tech- Daily Driver
1985 318i - 1st Car (started it all)
matty.dc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 11:50 PM   #2
e30_kid89
The Afro-stig
 
e30_kid89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: TDot West End
Posts: 4,589
Send a message via MSN to e30_kid89
Looks safe, run it...What wheels are these for?
__________________
e30_kid89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 11:51 PM   #3
matty.dc
5th Gear Member
 
matty.dc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,108
Send a message via MSN to matty.dc
these are for a set of 16x7 et40 konig freefalls (i know wasn't thinking when i bought them).
__________________

1987 325is(Midnight Tuning Tuned OBD I S52) - Current Summer Car
2012 Hyundai Veloster Tech- Daily Driver
1985 318i - 1st Car (started it all)
matty.dc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 11:52 PM   #4
e30_kid89
The Afro-stig
 
e30_kid89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: TDot West End
Posts: 4,589
Send a message via MSN to e30_kid89
Woah....yeeah you'll need em
__________________
e30_kid89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 11:54 PM   #5
matty.dc
5th Gear Member
 
matty.dc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,108
Send a message via MSN to matty.dc
yea lol i know.......i knew i needed about 15mm to correct the offset issue and then theres 10mm just for the look
__________________

1987 325is(Midnight Tuning Tuned OBD I S52) - Current Summer Car
2012 Hyundai Veloster Tech- Daily Driver
1985 318i - 1st Car (started it all)
matty.dc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 06:29 AM   #6
echo
e30 slave
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bay of Islands, New Zealand
Posts: 74
If you're going to run a spacer, this is better than the slip-on ones. BUT I'd recommend getting some that have a centre-bore that has a tight fit on the hub, and has a replacement the correct size for the wheel centre bore so the weight is correctly borne by the hub not the studs.

There is some debate as to whether this is important, however I am of the personal opinion that it is.

I wouldn't recommend running more than a 20mm spacer although 25mm would be absolute maximum without other mods to compensate for the load and geometry changes.

I have some engineering documentation I caa dig up for you if you like that covers safe wheels spacer design. Although it is a fairly conservative document - other options are possible.
__________________
echo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 09:08 AM   #7
theox69
2nd Gear Member
 
theox69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Montreal
Posts: 200
You'll be fine.
I'm going to be running 35mm adapters..
__________________
theox69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 09:26 AM   #8
matty.dc
5th Gear Member
 
matty.dc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,108
Send a message via MSN to matty.dc
i assume your adapters look like this without the centre bore to the correct size?
__________________

1987 325is(Midnight Tuning Tuned OBD I S52) - Current Summer Car
2012 Hyundai Veloster Tech- Daily Driver
1985 318i - 1st Car (started it all)
matty.dc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 12:25 PM   #9
theox69
2nd Gear Member
 
theox69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Montreal
Posts: 200
actually, my porsche adapters are hubcentric
__________________
theox69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 05:18 PM   #10
echo
e30 slave
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bay of Islands, New Zealand
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by theox69 View Post
You'll be fine.
I'm going to be running 35mm adapters..
That doesn't make it a good idea. If you drive a slow low and bouncy city cruiser, then all good. If you have a track car, not so good. Some cars (porsche for one) had spacers on some models from factory, and big ones too, but they also have the knowledge to do the calcs and reinforce when necessary.

Be very careful pushing your rims out this much is all I have to say. Just because the wheel doesn't fall of the car the first time you drive it doesn't make it a good idea or mean it handles the same. In fact it would handle like arse in most cases especially if we are talking about the fronts.
__________________
echo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 05:25 PM   #11
matty.dc
5th Gear Member
 
matty.dc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,108
Send a message via MSN to matty.dc
hmmm after these thoughts i think ill stick with the 20mm H&R trak hubcentric spacers
__________________

1987 325is(Midnight Tuning Tuned OBD I S52) - Current Summer Car
2012 Hyundai Veloster Tech- Daily Driver
1985 318i - 1st Car (started it all)
matty.dc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 06:08 PM   #12
theox69
2nd Gear Member
 
theox69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Montreal
Posts: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by echo View Post
That doesn't make it a good idea. If you drive a slow low and bouncy city cruiser, then all good. If you have a track car, not so good. Some cars (porsche for one) had spacers on some models from factory, and big ones too, but they also have the knowledge to do the calcs and reinforce when necessary.

Be very careful pushing your rims out this much is all I have to say. Just because the wheel doesn't fall of the car the first time you drive it doesn't make it a good idea or mean it handles the same. In fact it would handle like arse in most cases especially if we are talking about the fronts.
I will most definitely be careful, I don't drive like an idiot on the street.
But what proof is there that adapters are dangerous?
That's just like saying stretched tires are dangerous...with no proof -- because no one really has any, it's all hearsay and opinions.
__________________
theox69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 09:30 PM   #13
echo
e30 slave
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bay of Islands, New Zealand
Posts: 74
Its to do with 1 of 2 things. Spacer design, and suspension geometry change.

I'm sure you can understand spacer design issues - Incorrect centre bores and mounting surfaces can make for improperly centred and balanced wheels = vibration = bad. Slip-on spacers are often the worst in this regard, but poorly designed bolt-ons can be equally bad. The other problem with slip-ons is people not using long enough stud bolts, and then the added danger of using really long stud bolts without proper centre bore mounting on the spacer. This means that the only thing stopping the whole lot shifting is the tightness of the stud bolts, which are now longer, and subject to greater tensile, and shear loads. High tensile bolts are rated on their tension strength, not shear strength.

So basically anything more than 5-10mm should be a bolt-on spacer with proper centre bores to transfer the load correctly to the hub other wise you can get vibration, point loading, stud bolt shear and lose your wheels.

The second factor is suspension geometry which if not properly thought out will negatively affect handling in often surprising ways - especially with a lowered setup where the trailing arm is more likely to traverse past neutral. Especially in an e30 where we have semi-trailing arms and the camber changes toward negative as the suspension compresses. The more negative offset (created by larger spacers) makes this effect more pronounced (in terms of mm toe and camber - the angles of course are the same). Properly thought out, this can be used to your advantage, improperly dealt with this can cause interesting camber and toe changes mid corner and thus loss of traction or unpredictable handling. At the front there is a similar issue with castor and scrub radius - you may experience tramlining or loss of feel and wandering, and heavier steering.

This is not to mention the added load on the wheel bearings, hubs, springs, shocks and shock towers, the rear shock towers on e30s are particularly weak and susceptible to failure with high spring and damping rates and large negative offset.

Of course all this is at the extreme end, and the most likely scenario is simply faster wear, but you wanted to know why. You are wrong to think because you havn't heard any proof, the proof is not there. All you need to do is look and read - plenty of info on how offset affects a semi-trailing arm and McPherson strut suspension setup. All you have to do is look. Here for example

I'm not an expert, just a passionate enthusiast. I concede that 20-25mm spacers are no problem, and that 35mm spacers, can be used with some thought put into the spacer design, and the intended result. I guess what I'm saying is there is nothing wrong with doing it and there are also some benefits, but use decent spacers, and do the research first.

Why are you running such a large spacer anyway???

Oh and to answer the OP's question more clearly - the spacers pictured would probably be fine if you have stud-centering wheels and stud bolts. Otherwise the spacer must be hubcentric. I'd also want the spacer centre bore to fit over the vehicles hub snugly. (57.1mm for e30)
__________________

Last edited by echo; 04-20-2009 at 09:50 PM.
echo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 10:19 PM   #14
theox69
2nd Gear Member
 
theox69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Montreal
Posts: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by echo View Post
Why are you running such a large spacer anyway??
Because I bought Porsche wheels that are 16x8" et49, so I got a 35mm adapter, similar to that of H&R's.
They go from 4x100 to porsche fitment, 5x130, and from the e30's 57.1mm centerbore, to porsche's 72.6mm.
I could take pics if you'd like...
__________________
theox69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 11:21 PM   #15
everlast
if I lived . I would be ~
 
everlast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 5,847
You guys have to keep in mind that if a 20mm spacer is on a wheel with a ET40 offset it's going to have the exact same bearing load as a 20ET offset wheel with the same dimensions. A 20ET wheel just has more depth of material cast into it.

That said, an ET0 rim would have the same effect of bearing load as a ET35 with 35mm spacers (in the style of the ones in the first pic.) Initally, you'd thing that would be a crazy lateral load on the bearing.. but..

LOTS of guys run ET0 SportMaxx rims all day long and the car doesn't collapse.

Spacers should be used to correctly place the wheel in the fender, and can be used to change the balance of the car. Try adding 8mm spacers on the rear someday and take a familiar corner hard. Be ready for a surprise.
__________________
everlast is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.