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Old 02-22-2009, 05:55 PM   #16
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To me, and most of the world, we view those US soldiers as heroes. The US was one of the only countries in the world to fight Somalian militia that were stealing food and aid from the UN and selling it to other warlords for weapons. You should read the book its based on!
You might thinks so, but not really. US Army tends to destroy more than it saves - e.g. Western Europe (air raids), Vietnam (agent orange, napalm) and Iraq.

You see them as heroes fighting in Somalia, while the problems in Africa exist since demise of the colonial order so it is nothing new.

US Army, while a powerful military force really never won any major war on its own.

WWI - late entry against already weakened Central Powers + unrest in central / eastern Europe
WWII - European theatre of war - late entry against weak German army (fighting losing war in the east)
WWII - Pacific theatre of war - largely strategic war against determined but overextended enemy.
Korea - partial victory or partial defeat
Vietnam - let's not go there
Iraq - poorly equipped and demoralized army

I omitted conflicts, but those are the main ones.

They might be heroes, but their record is certainly not the best for the military point of view and most their conflicts end up being unresolved or temporarily resolved.
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Old 02-22-2009, 06:05 PM   #17
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who cares. Its just an action movie.

Was it an alright action movie? Ya it was good. Some crappy acting on the part of some of the guys, but for the most part okay. Personally the only reason why I think we are even talking about it in these forums is because TN nation watched it, got a hardon, and decided to post about it.

We Were Soldiers is a great movie. Also very accurate.

Band of Brothers is probably the best War movie/series you will ever see.

ALSO its worth noting the only reason why they were in Mogadishu in the first place because of USA trying to get a foothold/ use the ports that it offers. GAIN GAIN GAIN. UYou really think they cared about food?
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Old 02-22-2009, 06:26 PM   #18
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We were soldiers is a great movie. probably def one of my fav's. its so accurate for a movie, its not funny. besides....Mel Gibson is in it.....hes an amazing actor, he can make a shite movie good.

the US has never won any major battles on its own. I think it was Vimmey Ridge, the US took control after Canada captured Vimmy from the German's. US took control, and lost control. Canada came back to take th Ridge again......blah blah blah....the US cant do anything major with out someone elses help, im sorry to say.

Canada has one of the very best armies in the world, WAAAY better the the US amry. better training is what it comes down to. The US navy seals are a bunch of fannies compared to the British SAS, and Canadas JTF2 and CSOR. its all about the training. check out vids on youtube

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Old 02-22-2009, 06:28 PM   #19
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who cares. Its just an action movie.

Was it an alright action movie? Ya it was good. Some crappy acting on the part of some of the guys, but for the most part okay. Personally the only reason why I think we are even talking about it in these forums is because TN nation watched it, got a hardon, and decided to post about it.

We Were Soldiers is a great movie. Also very accurate.

Band of Brothers is probably the best War movie/series you will ever see.

ALSO its worth noting the only reason why they were in Mogadishu in the first place because of USA trying to get a foothold/ use the ports that it offers. GAIN GAIN GAIN. UYou really think they cared about food?
hey I agree with you.. all the movies you listed were so good.
And yes, the United States was there for the people.. it was an emerging genocide that started to occur, and the US, in combination with the UN and Pakistan was there to defend the food and aid packages that were getting stolen. Lets be realistic, what would they gain anyways in Somalia? The place was overrun by warlords and by militia's. It was a nightmare there, the US didn't even want to put troops into the sections of the city run by Mohamed Farrah Aidid. To believe that they were there entirely for food/aid prevention is naive, however, and to that fact, I agree the US was there for alterior motives. And why not? They're using their money/forces to prevent a conflict.
i think you should read my blogpost, for my defence of the US.
http://tylerstunna.blogspot.com/2009...ed-states.html

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We were soldiers is a great movie. probably def one of my fav's. its so accurate for a movie, its not funny. besides....Mel Gibson is in it.....hes an amazing actor, he can make a shite movie good.

the US has never won any major battles on its own. I think it was Vimmey Ridge, the US took control after Canada captured Vimmy from the German's. US took control, and lost control. Canada came back to take th Ridge again......blah blah blah....the US cant do anything major with out someone elses help, im sorry to say.
First of all, who fights wars on their own? This world is full of alliances and treaties, combinations of different countries and pacts, interglobal states and authorities who back each other up in times of conflict. To say the US never wins battles on its own is ridiculous, because why would they fight on their own?

and oh my goodness...
1. War for Independence--French, Dutch, and Spanish allies. Significant win for the US.

2. War of 1812--no allies, but I would say the US lost in this war.

3. Mexican War--no allies; significant USA victory leading to massive land transfer.

4. Spanish-American War--USA joins a pre-existing rebellion against Spanish rule in Cuba and in the Phillipines.

5. World War I--USA joins war relatively late; many Allied nations. US is an integral part of the the war, thousands and thousands of Americans died

6. World War II--USA joins war in 1941; numerous Allies. Without the United States, we'd be under German rule. Clear US victory.

7. Korean War--USA allied with South Korea. No victory for either side.

8. Vietnam War--USA allied with South Vietnam. Other allies were South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, and a few more. South Korea provided the second largest group of non-Vietnamese soldiers. War ends with defeat of South Vietnam--no USA victory.

9. Gulf War-- Clear US victory, destroys Iraq. A few years later, Saddam would once again rise to power.

10. Afghanistan-- initial victory, which has now turned the other way. It will be a success soon.

11. War in Iraq-- Victory as far as the US and I am concerned, troops are on their way to be pulled, the US has given millions of Iraqi's the right to vote, women can show skin in public, people have rights and freedoms, and Al-Qaeda is on the run. Has been a very tough war.

oh and no kidding, Canada and Britain have better trained soldiers. No denying that. Smaller populations and better instructors are a large part to that success.

Last edited by TNation; 02-22-2009 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 06:40 PM   #20
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Actaully they have alot to gain my Somalia being a US puppet, where they can base out of.

ITs a perfect strategical place to have a US port base/etc, naval field to base out of and have control over the Indian Ocean. Perfect striking distance for a US carier base to India, Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan in very short time span. Its also safer for its fleet because its out of immediate striking range from any of the countries i mentioned. cept maybe india.

Perfect spot to control the Suez Canal and flow of US carrier Battle groups to and from the Medit. Sea.

The US never goes anywhere for "humaniatrian" aid. I mean unless you believe what Bush was saying when they said lets go into I-Raq.

Even Afghanistan... Oh wait, whats the pipe line they had invisioned and gave contracts to lobbyists? ooh no, they went there to save the taliban people!.
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Old 02-22-2009, 06:47 PM   #21
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Actaully they have alot to gain my Somalia being a US puppet, where they can base out of.

ITs a perfect strategical place to have a US port base/etc, naval field to base out of and have control over the Indian Ocean. Perfect striking distance for a US carier base to India, Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan in very short time span. Its also safer for its fleet because its out of immediate striking range from any of the countries i mentioned. cept maybe india.

Perfect spot to control the Suez Canal and flow of US carrier Battle groups to and from the Medit. Sea.

The US never goes anywhere for "humaniatrian" aid. I mean unless you believe what Bush was saying when they said lets go into I-Raq.

Even Afghanistan... Oh wait, whats the pipe line they had invisioned and gave contracts to lobbyists? ooh no, they went there to save the taliban people!.
It comes down to what you believe. If the United States is helping a country out, providing aid, preventing warlords from killing innocent civilians, etc thus a fair deal would allow the US to have its foot in the back door in that part of the world. I see nothing wrong with that. That country can't afford to pay the US because of anarchy, and to me, the US has gone above and beyond its required means of help with humanitarian aid, so whats wrong with a US naval base?
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Old 02-22-2009, 07:09 PM   #22
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and oh my goodness...
1. War for Independence--French, Dutch, and Spanish allies. Significant win for the US.

2. War of 1812--no allies, but I would say the US lost in this war.

3. Mexican War--no allies; significant USA victory leading to massive land transfer.

4. Spanish-American War--USA joins a pre-existing rebellion against Spanish rule in Cuba and in the Phillipines.

5. World War I--USA joins war relatively late; many Allied nations. US is an integral part of the the war, thousands and thousands of Americans died

6. World War II--USA joins war in 1941; numerous Allies. Without the United States, we'd be under German rule. Clear US victory.

7. Korean War--USA allied with South Korea. No victory for either side.

8. Vietnam War--USA allied with South Vietnam. Other allies were South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, and a few more. South Korea provided the second largest group of non-Vietnamese soldiers. War ends with defeat of South Vietnam--no USA victory.

9. Gulf War-- Clear US victory, destroys Iraq. A few years later, Saddam would once again rise to power.

10. Afghanistan-- initial victory, which has now turned the other way. It will be a success soon.

11. War in Iraq-- Victory as far as the US and I am concerned, troops are on their way to be pulled, the US has given millions of Iraqi's the right to vote, women can show skin in public, people have rights and freedoms, and Al-Qaeda is on the run. Has been a very tough war.
Here is some history:

1. War of Independence was not really an open war, but a revolution or uprising. European powers due to logistical problems were not in a position to fight against "americans". Impossible for the British to win.

2. no comment

3. weak Mexico - not a real opponent.

4. Spain - former colonial power in decline without any means to wage long distance war.

5. US impact of WWI was minimal - by the time they entered the war outcome was decided.

6. US joined the war in 1941 - attacked by Japan followed by Germany declaring war on the US. No US ground unit fought in significant numbers until landings in North Africa in late 1942/early 1943 (early losses against DAK), followed by Sicily (slow progress against German defenders - German presence in Northern Italy until early 1945). Normandy summer 1944 - slow progress against German units (lacking significant air defense)

7. Korea was a single nation and only the outcome of the war made it into two nations. Communist North and US South.

8. Vietnam - former French colony of Indochina - US denied to help French at first, only to become entangled in the conflict few years later trying to contain Communist threat from USSR and China supporting Viet Min.

9. Iraq - war against former US ally in the Middle East - US support Iraq during Iraq-Iran war due to their more "pro-western" attitude vs. fundamentalist Iran. Iran became fundamentalist due to the lack of US help to Pahlavi - former US ally when "revolution" started. Iraq became unstable country with little or no government.

Any more wars ?
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Old 02-22-2009, 07:23 PM   #23
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First of all, who fights wars on their own?
i didnt say that but the US forces imo havent done a lot to aid the world. they vlow shit up. as is the US, Canada is involved in more peace ops. Canada more so than a lot of world powers. a lot of countries are scared (if you will) of the CF. therefore our presence is a big part of any allied operation. granted, many allied ops could not have been completed wit out the US, but they more less mess things up more than help.

everything is too glorified for the US forces.....they dont win everything......and its not solely a US victory. Example....WW2....the US did help, a lot, but the war may have been lost for sure, if Canada was not involved. IMO, i dont believe the same is true for the US's presence in WW2.
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Old 02-22-2009, 07:34 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by TNation View Post
To me, and most of the world, we view those US soldiers as heroes. The US was one of the only countries in the world to fight Somalian militia that were stealing food and aid from the UN and selling it to other warlords for weapons. You should read the book its based on!
if you love the us so much
why dont you go live there
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Yo man, I got $6000 in my bank account, and I could buy any car i want
Ya man with $6000 in the bank, you're really balling arnt ya
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Old 02-22-2009, 07:35 PM   #25
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Here is some history:

1. War of Independence was not really an open war, but a revolution or uprising. European powers due to logistical problems were not in a position to fight against "americans". Impossible for the British to win.

2. no comment

3. weak Mexico - not a real opponent.

4. Spain - former colonial power in decline without any means to wage long distance war.

5. US impact of WWI was minimal - by the time they entered the war outcome was decided.

6. US joined the war in 1941 - attacked by Japan followed by Germany declaring war on the US. No US ground unit fought in significant numbers until landings in North Africa in late 1942/early 1943 (early losses against DAK), followed by Sicily (slow progress against German defenders - German presence in Northern Italy until early 1945). Normandy summer 1944 - slow progress against German units (lacking significant air defense)

7. Korea was a single nation and only the outcome of the war made it into two nations. Communist North and US South.

8. Vietnam - former French colony of Indochina - US denied to help French at first, only to become entangled in the conflict few years later trying to contain Communist threat from USSR and China supporting Viet Min.

9. Iraq - war against former US ally in the Middle East - US support Iraq during Iraq-Iran war due to their more "pro-western" attitude vs. fundamentalist Iran. Iran became fundamentalist due to the lack of US help to Pahlavi - former US ally when "revolution" started. Iraq became unstable country with little or no government.

Any more wars ?
well put
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Yo man, I got $6000 in my bank account, and I could buy any car i want
Ya man with $6000 in the bank, you're really balling arnt ya
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:06 PM   #26
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6. World War II--USA joins war in 1941; numerous Allies. Without the United States, we'd be under German rule. Clear US victory.
The only thing the US was an integral part of in WWII is keeping Germany half non-Communist. The fact that it cost them thousands of lives is their dumbass problem. Saying it was a US victory is like some asshole joining the bandwagon of a team before game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals and gloating that his team won.
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:37 PM   #27
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WOW, you guys ever watch movies just for entertainment? This movie is wicked. Put it on a big screen on Blue Ray, add some high end sound in DTS and enjoy. THIS MOVIE ROCKS!!!
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:37 PM   #28
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Here is some history:

1. War of Independence was not really an open war, but a revolution or uprising. European powers due to logistical problems were not in a position to fight against "americans". Impossible for the British to win.

2. no comment

3. weak Mexico - not a real opponent.

4. Spain - former colonial power in decline without any means to wage long distance war.

5. US impact of WWI was minimal - by the time they entered the war outcome was decided.

6. US joined the war in 1941 - attacked by Japan followed by Germany declaring war on the US. No US ground unit fought in significant numbers until landings in North Africa in late 1942/early 1943 (early losses against DAK), followed by Sicily (slow progress against German defenders - German presence in Northern Italy until early 1945). Normandy summer 1944 - slow progress against German units (lacking significant air defense)

7. Korea was a single nation and only the outcome of the war made it into two nations. Communist North and US South.

8. Vietnam - former French colony of Indochina - US denied to help French at first, only to become entangled in the conflict few years later trying to contain Communist threat from USSR and China supporting Viet Min.

9. Iraq - war against former US ally in the Middle East - US support Iraq during Iraq-Iran war due to their more "pro-western" attitude vs. fundamentalist Iran. Iran became fundamentalist due to the lack of US help to Pahlavi - former US ally when "revolution" started. Iraq became unstable country with little or no government.

Any more wars ?
Again you're arguing wars that the US clearly won, and rationalizing it as weak opponents or countries that couldn't wage wars long distance or for whatever reason
I don't think you or other people in this forum truly understand how GREAT, powerful, and devastating the United States military is. It's the largest part of their GDP spending. Because of the last American pre-emptive policy with the Middle East, many in the Middle East hate the United States with an unbridled fervor. And when the Republicans gain power again in 2012 and take control of the House, Congress, and Presidency, we will likely see this anti-American spirit return again, as unfortunate as that is; its so much easier to blame a political party then to deal with the issues, hey Iran?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crossfire291 View Post
i didnt say that but the US forces imo havent done a lot to aid the world. they vlow shit up. as is the US, Canada is involved in more peace ops. Canada more so than a lot of world powers. a lot of countries are scared (if you will) of the CF. therefore our presence is a big part of any allied operation. granted, many allied ops could not have been completed wit out the US, but they more less mess things up more than help.

everything is too glorified for the US forces.....they dont win everything......and its not solely a US victory. Example....WW2....the US did help, a lot, but the war may have been lost for sure, if Canada was not involved. IMO, i dont believe the same is true for the US's presence in WW2.
Canada is wonderful. awesome. perfect. But entirely useless on the world stage, and for being the USA's leading trading partner, our prowess and influence on the world stage has been at an all-time low (besides being a partner of the UN). Name to me one event Canada has successfully completed on its own in a worldwide scale in comparison to the US? Don't say mishandling the internal domestic affairs such as the FLQ crisis and giving Quebec way too many rights. It hasn't been until recently that Canada is finally showing it is a player on the world stage with its involvement in Afghanistan, by backing up our neighbor to the south. I love Stephen Harper, and I'm glad he supports the United States.
Lastly, to say that the USA, without Canada, would have lost WW2 is rather inaccurate; millions of Canadians died in many battles, but the end of the war was with the atom bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, in which the U.S. ended it, on its one, with technology that no country had before. Yes I realize the atom bombs were just the significant end of WWII, but to say without Canada the war would be lost is incorrect; the United States war bonds and human sacrifices (with considerable help from our allies) helped us endure the freedoms we have even to this day.

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if you love the us so much
why dont you go live there
My parents own a couple properties in the US, and I love visiting, and being a part of the United States when I travel there. Their patriotism and unity is ... powerful and amazing. I really do admire the United States, behind their arrogance.
I'm proud to be Canadian first and foremost though. I love Canada, I've lived in 4 provinces, and I've traveled across it several times. I enjoy Canada, I like that we have we have a socialist government that yet still provides us with full freedoms and rights. I love the geography and beauty of this country, and the people are pretty easy going, if not way too liberal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katmanz View Post
WOW, you guys ever watch movies just for entertainment? This movie is wicked. Put it on a big screen on Blue Ray, add some high end sound in DTS and enjoy. THIS MOVIE ROCKS!!!
NO KIDDING, its sooo good!
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:45 PM   #29
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The only thing the US was an integral part of in WWII is keeping Germany half non-Communist. The fact that it cost them thousands of lives is their dumbass problem. Saying it was a US victory is like some asshole joining the bandwagon of a team before game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals and gloating that his team won.
US didn't even achieve that as the occupation zones were agreed upon during the Allied conferences. Russians simply made their zone into East Germany and US, French and British into West Germany.
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:54 PM   #30
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Again you're arguing wars that the US clearly won, and rationalizing it as weak opponents or countries that couldn't wage wars long distance or for whatever reason
I don't think you or other people in this forum truly understand how GREAT, powerful, and devastating the United States military is. It's the largest part of their GDP spending. Because of the last American pre-emptive policy with the Middle East, many in the Middle East hate the United States with an unbridled fervor. And when the Republicans gain power again in 2012 and take control of the House, Congress, and Presidency, we will likely see this anti-American spirit return again, as unfortunate as that is; its so much easier to blame a political party then to deal with the issues, hey Iran?



Canada is wonderful. awesome. perfect. But entirely useless on the world stage, and for being the USA's leading trading partner, our prowess and influence on the world stage has been at an all-time low (besides being a partner of the UN). Name to me one event Canada has successfully completed on its own in a worldwide scale in comparison to the US? Don't say mishandling the internal domestic affairs such as the FLQ crisis and giving Quebec way too many rights. It hasn't been until recently that Canada is finally showing it is a player on the world stage with its involvement in Afghanistan, by backing up our neighbor to the south. I love Stephen Harper, and I'm glad he supports the United States.
Lastly, to say that the USA, without Canada, would have lost WW2 is rather inaccurate; millions of Canadians died in many battles, but the end of the war was with the atom bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, in which the U.S. ended it, on its one, with technology that no country had before. Yes I realize the atom bombs were just the significant end of WWII, but to say without Canada the war would be lost is incorrect; the United States war bonds and human sacrifices (with considerable help from our allies) helped us endure the freedoms we have even to this day.



My parents own a couple properties in the US, and I love visiting, and being a part of the United States when I travel there. Their patriotism and unity is ... powerful and amazing. I really do admire the United States, behind their arrogance.
I'm proud to be Canadian first and foremost though. I love Canada, I've lived in 4 provinces, and I've traveled across it several times. I enjoy Canada, I like that we have we have a socialist government that yet still provides us with full freedoms and rights. I love the geography and beauty of this country, and the people are pretty easy going, if not way too liberal.



NO KIDDING, its sooo good!
Your knowledge regarding world history is rather limited hence any other discussion is rather pointless. You can't judge conflicts from one side and there are numerous factors that need to be considered.

e.g. Revolutionary war and communication between e.g. Boston garrison and London HQ at the time. British were fighting a war without being able to contact their HQ for reinforcements until a ship reached England.



As to amazing technology possessed by USA in WWII - German developed first rocket fighter, first operational jet fighter, first ballistic missile and was very close from completing hydrogen bomb - they decided to develop hydrogen bomb instead of atomic one. Please remember who got US into space - Wernher von Braun and scientists from Peenemunde.
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