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Old 12-21-2008, 11:32 AM   #16
slemmer
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They'll be a spike in the 40+ age group as they hit mid-life crisis and want to go back to the 'ol gear shift days.
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Old 12-21-2008, 11:32 AM   #17
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i think its all Mercedes fault!
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Old 12-21-2008, 11:43 AM   #18
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manual has more uses than just fuel economy. When I lived in germany, Wiblingen to be exact, the roads are nothing like they are here. There is drastic changes in elevation and winding roads. In the winter, a manual is a must to be able to drive there safetly. Most automatic drivers don't know how to fully utilize the gearbox, and manual vehicles allow you to engine brake much easier and more fluently. The last thing you want is to have to slow down with your brakes going downhill.
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Old 12-21-2008, 12:00 PM   #19
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id take a 8 speed auto vs a 5 speed manual ANY day...

my dads 08 C class you cant really feel the gear change with the 7 speed tran.

to some of you that may seem boring. but when you really punch it. it keeps going and going.
the only thing i dont like about that 7 speed. is when your city speeds and punch it. it will down shift from 5 to 4. then realize the demand of [power is still great, and then down shift AGAIN from 4th to 3rd. that whole down shifting takes around 2-3 seconds. which is A lot
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Old 12-21-2008, 12:12 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by ericdalinda View Post
id take a 8 speed auto vs a 5 speed manual ANY day...

my dads 08 C class you cant really feel the gear change with the 7 speed tran.

to some of you that may seem boring. but when you really punch it. it keeps going and going.
the only thing i dont like about that 7 speed. is when your city speeds and punch it. it will down shift from 5 to 4. then realize the demand of [power is still great, and then down shift AGAIN from 4th to 3rd. that whole down shifting takes around 2-3 seconds. which is A lot
thats why I love the Lexus IS-F
8 speed auto, with paddle shifters.
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Old 12-21-2008, 02:33 PM   #21
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I disagree, sure manual is better for fuel economy/power but that doesnt compensate for the inconvenience of always clutching/changing gears unless it's a race car then it's a must. I prefer the butterfly anyway. Also more and more cars are triptronic or how every you call it.
Thats not right. You can drive any manual just as economic or even better as long as you know how to drive. On top of that no full automatic can much a manual on an uphill twisty road and further more you can use gears to even slow down hence saving on your brakes.
Semi autos are almost as good but still have some way to go. Proof is the new evo that sucks launching in semi auto versions is almost as good on a track as the manual but if you upgrade power beind a point it sucks ass.
Face it autos are only there for 3 main reasons. People are getting lazier, they cant drive and traffic is increasing therefore making an auto the sensible choice(and this is the only reason i would buy an auto)
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Old 12-21-2008, 05:34 PM   #22
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Per Top Gear review... Lexus IS-F = FAIL!
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Old 12-21-2008, 06:22 PM   #23
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Thats not right. You can drive any manual just as economic or even better as long as you know how to drive. On top of that no full automatic can much a manual on an uphill twisty road and further more you can use gears to even slow down hence saving on your brakes.
Semi autos are almost as good but still have some way to go. Proof is the new evo that sucks launching in semi auto versions is almost as good on a track as the manual but if you upgrade power beind a point it sucks ass.
Face it autos are only there for 3 main reasons. People are getting lazier, they cant drive and traffic is increasing therefore making an auto the sensible choice(and this is the only reason i would buy an auto)
I'm not sure what ur trying to say, sounds like you disagree with me but agree at some points. The Mythbusters said that manual is better for fuel ecnomoy/power and I would have to agree because its much easier to control ur RPM with manual tranny.


People in Europe drive alot more fluidly, that is a result of having a manual tranny in most cars.
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Old 12-21-2008, 06:29 PM   #24
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People in Europe drive alot more fluidly, that is a result of having a manual tranny in most cars.
People in Europe also drive more aggressively and also getting a license in Europe is not an easy task - more than 60% of Canadian drivers would only pass after 3-4 attempts.
Auto transmissions were available in Europe and were mostly used by wealthy people or governmental agencies.
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Old 12-21-2008, 07:55 PM   #25
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BMW is too focused on autos, they should have been the first to market with the following. Very cool.

2009 Nissan 370Z... The new close-ratio 6-speed manual includes an available world’s first synchronized downshift rev matching system, which allows drivers of any skill level to experience professional-like gear shift performance. The “SynchroRev Match” function automatically controls and adjusts engine speed when shifting to the exact speed of the next gear position, essentially “blipping” the throttle to smooth out any up/down shifts. This not only allows the driver to focus more on braking and steering, it improves vehicle balance and smoothness by reducing the typical “shock” when the clutch is engaged. The system can be deactivated with a button next to the shifter for drivers who prefer less vehicle intervention. The SynchroRev Match system is offered as part of the optional Sport Package.

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2008/11...s-release.html
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Old 12-21-2008, 11:14 PM   #26
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I want to see the numbers that proves a GAS MANUAL TRANSMISSION CAR, is more Fuel Economic then a AUTO transmission.

What 10.1 litters compared to 10.05 litres for auto? **** off, lets see the real numbers for you average joes.

Im willing to bet that most of you here probably use more gas on manual tran cars anyway because I doubt any of you shift perfectly all the time. There can be the expcetion to this rule.

I think for diesel cars u need manual no doubt. but for gas, auto transmission wins hands down in economy. In long lasting use. etc.
As for treacherous condidionts, wtf are you talking about.

MAybe in the alps they have treacherous conditions, not the rest of europe. And plz have u ever driven manual vs auto in the winter? YOu can barely rock the car as well with manual then u can with auto. Ive never gotten stuck with Auto in the winter, ever. Because u can rock the car so easy its a joke. WIth manual I see people spining all the time. Its stupid.

Anyway w/e fun factor = manual.. Thats about it.
Ease of use, economy, everything else = auto.

you cant beat the computer. And if you need the tourque for going up hill, down shifting on a trip tronic, or even a 4 gearbox works just as well.
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Old 12-22-2008, 12:23 AM   #27
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I had automatic car and sold it, and now drive stick shift bimmer. I started being too lazy. YEAH I had one left foot unoccupied. Than I got even more lazier and started using cruise, and almost smashed my car when I got carried away while not reacting fast.
No more automatic. Maybe after 65.

Also when I rent a car in my hometown, They have only stick shift cars. If you tell them you cant drive it, they look at you in a strange way. They would ask you where you came from. Than wasting your time to get a car with auto tranny for you that will take time to be brought around. Too much BS.

In Can and Usa we have individuals that eat/drink/sleep in their cars with nasty habbits. Have some class. Go out and eat. My friend had some asian food in his car for days. I think even my shit smelled better. Come on
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Old 12-22-2008, 01:24 AM   #28
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I'm a powertrain engineer, so I'll try to shed some light from my perspective,

Automatics have worse fuel economy due to the energy wasted while slipping the torque convertor. We try to lock that sucker up as much as possible but often times NVH/driveabilty don't allow it.

Manual transmissions gain fuel economy because there is minimal slip other than when launching from a standstill, typically there are more gear ratios (obviously this has changed with many modern automatics), and the fact that the driver can employ a very aggressive "fuel saving" shift schedule as they desire, they may lug the engine slightly but typically its tolerated by most manual drivers since they are the ones causing it, however you can't get away with that sort of shift schedule on an automatic and still have it be "customer acceptable".

For the resons above are why dual clutch transmissions are becoming popular, they essentialialy manual transmissions shifted automatically using two clutches (one for even gears and one for odd).

SIREX, as far as real data showing the differnence in fuel economy auto vs manual, I have more than you would ever want to look at, we run EPA emmisions cycles daily with emmisions benches that cost millions, trust me its true especially in real world driving like I described above.
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:00 AM   #29
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Cost, cost, cost. The mileage on your automatic transmission car will drop 10% compared to manual transmissions. Automatics are known to consume more fuel. Also, they'll probably be more expensive in the first place- $700 or so on average.
http://www.buyingadvice.com/automati...nsmission.html
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Old 12-22-2008, 03:12 AM   #30
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I'm not sure what ur trying to say, sounds like you disagree with me but agree at some points. The Mythbusters said that manual is better for fuel ecnomoy/power and I would have to agree because its much easier to control ur RPM with manual tranny.


People in Europe drive alot more fluidly, that is a result of having a manual tranny in most cars.
That is what i was saying too!
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