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Old 04-29-2008, 07:39 PM   #31
Lee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickFinga View Post
M3 is NOT the only car that appreciates in value. M1, 3.0cs, 2002 Turbo, and a lot of other old ones.

Also M3 does not appreciate in value 5-10% every year, but their price is pretty steady for the last 5 years.
I understand that you own one or two M3s for such an educated comment. M1 and 3.0 CSLs prices have been static for 10 years. Same for Turbo 02s.

Quite the opposite of what you state, the M3 prices have been escalading for the past 5 years. BTW I have owned my M3 for 10 years and have closely watched the market.
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Old 04-29-2008, 07:46 PM   #32
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And like I said for the price of a mint Evo3 nowadays, you can get a used S2000 which is a better car in every way.
I didn't know that used S2000s sold for $35k these days. Which is the price for a good Evo3, but nothing exceptional. Minters are $50k these days if you can find one. Very few were made (600 units). Welcome to the world of e30 M3s. The winningest Touring car of automotive history.

Last edited by Lee; 04-29-2008 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 04-29-2008, 07:48 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus View Post
First of all lets see in 20 years from now what the S2000 will be worth.
The reason why m3 costs so much is because it's a rather low production car.


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Originally Posted by magnus View Post
Secondly the E30 was a far superior car than the Merc 190 and the Cossies.
Facts please.


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Originally Posted by magnus View Post
Also i bet the article you read was from a US magazine where folks no nothing about handling!


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Originally Posted by magnus View Post
Thirdly the S14 engine was one of the first mass produced engines to offer close to 100bhp per liter (in 320iS form it made 196bhp from 2 lt).
192hp, or 189hp on this side of the pond.
One of the doesn't count, Honda's b16 was first and for much cheaper.

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Originally Posted by magnus View Post
Then you have all the major racing drivers swearing by this car as the best RWD car ever.
OK, this smells of BS way too much. I'd love to see some quotes.

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Originally Posted by magnus View Post
Yes technology has moved on but considering you still see cars with 300K km on the clock and handle and go as they were new says alot.
I doubt a car with 300k parts on it would handle as good as new, no matter what car is it.

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Originally Posted by magnus View Post
The crank on the BMW M3 was so stiff that it was able to run even at speeds of 10,000 rpm and more. Back then that was F1 territory and even today that is very impressive!
And what was happening to the valves at 10k rpm?

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Originally Posted by magnus View Post
I challenge you to go out and find a car that
a) looks as good
b)goes and handles just as well
c)can take 4 with luggage(or even 5)
d)is just as reliable
e)has a similar heritage
f)in 20 years it will still be competitive.
g)and has a similar resale value


No disrespect but as it was said earlier if you dont know what it really is then dont try and put it down.
a) looks is personal, so why even mention it?
b) as we established, today it's not such a great handling car
c) many cars
d) it's not that reliable!! It is a VERY high maintenance car.
e) What kind of heritage does it have? It was a successful touring car, but so was e36 and e46
f) see b
g) supra, skyline, delta integrale evo. 190e evo2 costs much more than m3 sport evo
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Old 04-29-2008, 07:55 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus View Post
And here you go for proof!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-lEdbzmKxY
Watch what he says towards the end!
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Originally Posted by magnus View Post
Yes technology has moved on but considering you still see cars with 300K km on the clock and handle and go as they were new says alot.

Thank you, come again.

btw, check notjoe's dynoes of his e36 m3, it is 250k km car and dynoed at 200rwhp like any other m3.
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Old 04-29-2008, 08:02 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
I understand that you own one or two M3s for such an educated comment. M1 and 3.0 CSLs prices have been static for 10 years. Same for Turbo 02s.

Quite the opposite of what you state, the M3 prices have been escalading for the past 5 years. BTW I have owned my M3 for 10 years and have closely watched the market.
When I was looking for e36 m3 in 2002 there was an e30 m3 for sale at a dealership for $18,000 with some rust on the roof.

Rob was selling his car for $25,000 in 2003 and I believe it was sold somewhere near $22k mark.

For the past 5 year I see them hovering in 20-25k mark depending on condition.

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It is highly collectible
Forgot about this comment It is NOT a highly collectible car, it's a desirable car.

P.S. It's a great looking car, and it might be a fun car to drive, but that doesn't mean that it's the greatest handling car on the road. I have no problem with the price either. The price is dictated by the market. They wouldn't be for sale for 25k if there weren't people willing to pay that price, it's simple.
P.P.S. I'm out of this thread for today
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:48 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickFinga View Post
The reason why m3 costs so much is because it's a rather low production car.( Then you go compare it with cars that were made in even smaller numbers aka Evo II ??? And on top of that i think the fact the car is such an icon has something to do with the price too)



Facts please.(Merc was almost as good but had poor steering while cossies had a crappy chassis so did not handle as good.)



(Roll your eyes as much as you want but you know its true!)



192hp, or 189hp on this side of the pond.
One of the doesn't count, Honda's b16 was first and for much cheaper.(Actually it was 195 cause they lowered the compression on the engine substantially and had a restrictive emisions system! Go ahead and look it up. Plus 189-192 from 2 ltr is still pretty close to 100bhp per ltr considering the manufacture year it was introduced. And i did say close to 100bhp per ltr)


OK, this smells of BS way too much. I'd love to see some quotes.(Look it up. Your friend Tiff has said in the past that a man has to drive an M3 before he dies)



I doubt a car with 300k parts on it would handle as good as new, no matter what car is it. (obviously the car was well maintained. And why dont you try and tell that to some of the guys in here that are running cars with high mileage yet still keep up or beat newer ones)



And what was happening to the valves at 10k rpm?
I dont know, Why dont you ask your reliable source mr Tiff!!!





a) looks is personal, so why even mention it? (sure but even a blind person has to admit it still looks good)
b) as we established, today it's not such a great handling car( Nooo , you established that without even driving one so your answer is not really correct)
c) many cars(i asked you to name one or two and this is the best you could come up with?)
d) it's not that reliable!! It is a VERY high maintenance car.(this shows you know nothing about the car)
e) What kind of heritage does it have? It was a successful touring car, but so was e36 and e46(e36 touring cars actually used a 4pot engine derived from the s14 i believe so the e36 M3 does not qualify as a heritage car. Also E30 M3 won rallies both tarmac and gravel and even to this day continues to be succesfull)
f) see b( yes do look at b)
g) supra, skyline, delta integrale evo. 190e evo2 costs much more than m3 sport evo (Supra and Skyline are newer Integralle has the reliability of a banker on crack, Mercedes is almost as good but not quite and you can not compare evo II 190 with normal M3 but you would need the Evo sport against it . And just for your info i ve seen Evo Sports sell for 40-50000 Euros in Germany
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Old 04-30-2008, 07:07 AM   #37
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You fail at quoting.

1. I did not compare regular M3 to 190 EVOII. I clearly stated M3 Sport EVO.
2. Just because you say so(BENZ vs RS500 vs M3) doesn't make it true. Facts need sources.
3. Z06, bye.
4. I looked it up(320is) and what do I see? That's right 192hp(din) http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=10#3
5. Just because it's on the list of cars to drive before you dies, IT DOES NOT MEAN IT'S THE BEST RWD CAR!! geez why am I still here



Now, back to letters.
a) I know lotsa people, on this forum actually, that think its ugly.
b) Again, I provided you with a link to Fifth Gear, that unlike Top Gear, we can somewhat trust. You can clearly see that not only Colt beat it, X5 4.8is beat it.
c) are you serious?
d) Quite the opposite.
e) E36 used s14 engine just because of the regulations!! Where did it win gravel? I know it used to race, but I highly doubt it was successful. (again, links would be nice)
f) see b
g) First R32 is 89, so you can still use that. Well, it might have a poor reliability, but resale value on it is still pretty great. And for the blind


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g) supra, skyline, delta integrale evo. 190e evo2 costs much more than m3 sport evo
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Old 04-30-2008, 09:24 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by SickFinga View Post
Rob was selling his car for $25,000 in 2003 and I believe it was sold somewhere near $22k mark.

.
$24,500 SOLD FOR IN 2003.

But mine had a 2.5L motor and many other mods etc.

The E30 M3 is a special car, not for everyone, just like a Honda Crx.

Last edited by Robb; 04-30-2008 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 04-30-2008, 09:31 AM   #39
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......... WHoa......... everyone take a step back and harf down a deep breath eh We're actually all on the same side here............. or should be.
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Old 04-30-2008, 09:43 AM   #40
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The E30 M3 is a much celebrated vehicle, aren't you all glad it's a BMW? Where's the love??
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Old 04-30-2008, 11:57 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickFinga View Post
You fail at quoting.

1. I did not compare regular M3 to 190 EVOII. I clearly stated M3 Sport EVO.
2. Just because you say so(BENZ vs RS500 vs M3) doesn't make it true. Facts need sources.
3. Z06, bye.
4. I looked it up(320is) and what do I see? That's right 192hp(din) http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=10#3
5. Just because it's on the list of cars to drive before you dies, IT DOES NOT MEAN IT'S THE BEST RWD CAR!! geez why am I still here



Now, back to letters.
a) I know lotsa people, on this forum actually, that think its ugly.
b) Again, I provided you with a link to Fifth Gear, that unlike Top Gear, we can somewhat trust. You can clearly see that not only Colt beat it, X5 4.8is beat it.
c) are you serious?
d) Quite the opposite.
e) E36 used s14 engine just because of the regulations!! Where did it win gravel? I know it used to race, but I highly doubt it was successful. (again, links would be nice)
f) see b
g) First R32 is 89, so you can still use that. Well, it might have a poor reliability, but resale value on it is still pretty great. And for the blind

I dont need to argue with you about this! When you compare a Zo6 or a Skyline with the E30 shows that you are missing the point.
its like trying to convince people that say they dont like Pamela Anderson cause she has fake tits....though given the chance they would get their salami in that bun in less than they can think about it!

Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M3

And i quote:
The most notable characteristic of the E30 M3 (relative to later M3 iterations) is its racing pedigree. It was campaigned by BMW as well as other racing teams including Prodrive and AC Schnitzer competing in many forms of racing including but not limited to Rally, DTM, Australian touring car and other series.

Significant Victories in Auto Racing:
Championships

* World Touring Car Championship; 1 title (1987)
* European Touring Car Championship; 2 titles (1987 and 1988)
* British Touring Car Championship; 2 titles (1988 and 1991)
* Italia Superturismo Championship; 4 titles (1987, 1989, 1990 and 1991)
* Deutsche Tourenwagen Meisterschaft; 2 titles (1987 and 1989)
* Australian Touring Car Championship; 1 title (1987)

Races

* Guia Race; 5 wins (1987, 1988, 1991, 1992 and 1993)
* 24 Hours Nürburgring; 4 wins (1989 – 1992)
* Spa 24 Hours; 4 wins (1987, 1988, 1990 and 1992)


Notable publication accolades

In 2004, Sports Car International named the E30 M3 car number six on the list of Top Sports Cars of the 1980s.

In 2007 "Evo" Magazine rated the E30 M3 top of all the M series BMWs at time of print

In 2007 "Automobile Magazine included the E30 M3 in there "5 greatest drivers cars of all time" under the 25 Greatest Cars of All Time.



And here is the E36 in comparison when it comes to motorsport heritage:
acing History

In an ironic twist, the car that BMW built to race was hardly raced.

Outside of multiple cars raced in the BMW CCA Club Racing series (an amateur series specific only to BMW models) PTG had between two to four models that they raced in IMSA. It seems that one of those cars was sold to Jeff McMillian, in which he won the SCCA World Challenge series, without winning a single race. One was raced in the SCCA's Touring 1 class by John Browne, and one or two may have been raced in the extinct Motorola Cup.


Is that proof enough or do i need to get Tiff as your only reliable proof!

And i am not putting down any BMW cars but anyone that tries to put down the E30 M3 has clearly no knogledge or understanding of a true drivers car!
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Last edited by magnus; 04-30-2008 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 04-30-2008, 12:31 PM   #42
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Here is a litle video with a Ravaglia with mainly suspension mods and stripped out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zWWE...eature=related
And one chasing the Ring Taxi M5 (older one)
http://youtubech.com/watch/Nordschleife/mY0jjruruMU

I would like to see the Colt beat this even with 200bhp.
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Old 04-30-2008, 12:59 PM   #43
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Notable publication accolades

In 2004, Sports Car International named the E30 M3 car number six on the list of Top Sports Cars of the 1980s.

In 2007 "Evo" Magazine rated the E30 M3 top of all the M series BMWs at time of print

In 2007 "Automobile Magazine included the E30 M3 in there "5 greatest drivers cars of all time" under the 25 Greatest Cars of All Time.
Ummmm...you just disproved yourself. It came in number 6 in the list of top sports cars of the 80s.....so it wasn't number one back then either, so why would it be now???? And I know your going to say that the cars above it are cars like the Ferrari F40, which is true, but the audi quattro and VW Rabbit GTI also beat it on the list, so its not just super cars that are considered better than the E30 M3.

Also, when you asked what cars gain value or keep value like the E30 M3, people mentioned cars like the Mistub Evos, Skylines, and Supras. Your response was that they were newer. How new it is was not relivant to your question. You asked what cars hold or gain value. The Supra MKIV started in 1993 and ended in 1998. That makes it atleast a 10 year old car and can be as old as 15 years old. Look them up in the states(cuz its almost impossible to find them in canada for sale) and you will see that one in great shape will cost you a pretty penny. One with low kms will go for $50k+.
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Old 04-30-2008, 01:02 PM   #44
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Ummmm...you just disproved yourself. It came in number 6 in the list of top sports cars of the 80s.....so it wasn't number one back then either, so why would it be now???? And I know your going to say that the cars above it are cars like the Ferrari F40, which is true, but the audi quattro and VW Rabbit GTI also beat it on the list, so its not just super cars that are considered better than the E30 M3.

Also, when you asked what cars gain value or keep value like the E30 M3, people mentioned cars like the Mistub Evos, Skylines, and Supras. Your response was that they were newer. How new it is was not relivant to your question. You asked what cars hold or gain value. The Supra MKIV started in 1993 and ended in 1998. That makes it atleast a 10 year old car and can be as old as 15 years old. Look them up in the states(cuz its almost impossible to find them in canada for sale) and you will see that one in great shape will cost you a pretty penny. One with low kms will go for $50k+.
that makes too much sense. You're just going to confuse Magnus.
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Old 04-30-2008, 01:27 PM   #45
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that makes too much sense. You're just going to confuse Magnus.
Yeah, prepare for more lessons in how to use every logical fallacy in the book.
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