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Old 03-13-2014, 11:10 AM   #91
ahsm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by propr'one View Post
cool, i've been to krivij rih.

looks like russia is planning a full-scale invasion of ukraine to the dnipro, likely at the end of the month after the plebiscite in crimea. i've always thought that ukraine was the most fertile land in europe because of all the blood that has been spilled on it in the last few thousand years. looks like our great-grandchildren too will have fertile land, provided putin doesn't exterminate us all first.
You've been there? Nice My grandfather was a mayor of the one of the regions in Kryiviy Rih during the Soviet times.

Putin has lost his marbles. He is still dreaming of the USSR returning to what it was (not very good to begin with). He is claiming there is no military presence from the Russian Federation in Crimea and that the men with guns in full military attire are just "self defence" groups formed by locals. They removed Ukrainian channels from the air, burned Ukrainian books and Ukrainian flags. There is a disturbing amount of propaganda coming from Russia.
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Old 03-13-2014, 05:23 PM   #92
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You've been there? Nice My grandfather was a mayor of the one of the regions in Kryiviy Rih during the Soviet times.

Putin has lost his marbles. He is still dreaming of the USSR returning to what it was (not very good to begin with). He is claiming there is no military presence from the Russian Federation in Crimea and that the men with guns in full military attire are just "self defence" groups formed by locals. They removed Ukrainian channels from the air, burned Ukrainian books and Ukrainian flags. There is a disturbing amount of propaganda coming from Russia.
read this thread or its just circles with you. You and propr'one can go reinforce each others beliefs...bbc is even reporting clashes between pro-russian and the kiev protestors, western media isn't hiding the danger to eastern Ukrainians. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26564851.
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:03 AM   #93
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read this thread or its just circles with you. You and propr'one can go reinforce each others beliefs...bbc is even reporting clashes between pro-russian and the kiev protestors, western media isn't hiding the danger to eastern Ukrainians. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26564851.
There is lots of danger to Eastern Ukrainians... from Russians and Russia.

How about the clashes that happened yesterday? Busloads of thugs were brouht in from Russia, attacked a peaceful pro-Ukraine protest, beat everyone there and beat two people to death.

This whole idea of East and West Ukraine is stupid, it's propaganda used by Russian media to instigate a divide in Ukraine just like Hitler used against the Jews. Hitler said the Jews are different than us, we just divide from them, etc. There are barely if any reports of Ukrainians attacking Eastern Ukrainians. You can go and keep believing whatever you're reading. I have all my family in Ukraine who I'm pretty sure wouldn't lie to me when I ask them about current events. In regions that are border Russia thugs and instigators are being brought in to beat people up and cause shit. I have a real life account of everything that is being told.

You want me to post some articles about the so called Ukrainian fascists? How about the self proclaimed governor of Donetsk that was recently arrested for separatism? He is part of a Neo-Nazi organization. The guy that put the Russian flag on the gov't building in Kharkiv - Russian Neo Nazi, posts pictures of him in Nazi uniforms and is part of a organization. Everything that Russian is saying is in Ukraine (fascists, nazis, beating Russians) they are doing themselves to Ukrainians. You are just either ignorant or blind.
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:03 AM   #94
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Yesterday in Donetsk

Peaceful pro-Ukraine meeting attacked by Russian thugs (FROM RUSSIA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNqcwSwnybU
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:31 AM   #95
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^^dude dont feed the trolls. No point in replying to south, no one takes him seriously anyway.
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:16 PM   #96
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^^dude dont feed the trolls. No point in replying to south, no one takes him seriously anyway.
you are the only one that publicly says so, its really sad that you can't come up with anything other than western media to make your side sound. Whats your take on Crimeas referendum. Is it illegal for Crimeans to vote to join Russia? or leave Ukraine? If you say yes then you know nothing of Kosovo, because thanks to the US it set a legal precedent.
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:24 PM   #97
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none of you nationalistic Ukrainians do not even know their own history of socio-economic struggle. You are the same ones who would tear down statues of Lenin. Why can't explain to me why the western media is ignoring phone call leaks and violence outbreaks against Russians. Yet you come here and spew western media as credible. I get it you guys. Simple goonies from the hood with your own group of friends and your own little lives. Brainwashed by western American TV and materialism. Propr'one a self proclaimed PSCI major who calls all his professor bat crazy socialists. Yeah so academic there and professional there.

If western sources only show that Russians are beating up Ukrainians then why is violence against Russians not being addressed by you nationalistic puppets? I know the western media is trying to downplay this fact but you guys are just blind choosing sides. Let me guess this article is all BS made up Russian propaganda over something they never started...lol http://rt.com/news/russia-protection...mpatriots-830/.
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:33 PM   #98
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http://rt.com/news/referendums-ukrai...relations-782/
Is this all lies too guys? is this BS made up Russian propaganda? Tell me in a world of American Empire which is the biggest bullshitter and instigator? You nationalistic Ukrainians that want to be part of the "west"- yeah go ahead. You associate your identity with those anti russians that allied themselves with Nazis, or youve been brainwashed by western TV to think Putin is evil. **** your fascist heritage, **** your pro-western garbage, get some culture. Go ahead be like Kosovo. Have a statue of Obama in Kiev, like they have a statue of Clinton in Kosovo. And then let Crimea choose without you nationalistic assholes saying Russia is invading your country. **** your country. Ukraine at this moment is a joke. A western backed right wing elitist government that is supporting the rich and taking in loans that will mean austerity and hardship for the average people of Ukraine. You don't realize this yet because you do not know the history of the IMF or neo-liberal ideology.
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:35 PM   #99
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ahsm, you sound just like RT. You just blindly believe everything that is coming from the pro new government side. Do you know how I know that? This comment

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The guy that put the Russian flag on the gov't building in Kharkiv - Russian Neo Nazi, posts pictures of him in Nazi uniforms and is part of a organization.
Please do a little research before blindly believing everything you see online.

My two cents on the whole issues.

Ukraine can forget about Crimea, it's gone. It might not be recognized by anyone as a Russian republic/an independent states, but Russia doesn't give a shit. In fact, I believe that is exactly what Russia wants. The reason is that a country with a territory dispute can not join EU and/or NATO.
So after all this, Russia gets Crimea and a guarantee that Ukraine will not join EU and NATO. Even with all the sanctions EU/US can impose on Russia it's a win situation for Russia.

The whole situation is game of chess where Russia and US are playing for their own interests. They do not give a shit what's good for the Ukraine. Ukraine is just a pawn on that chessboard. Both US and Russia are using hypocrisy and double standards to defends their actions and accuse each other.
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:48 PM   #100
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You Pro-Ukrainian people have no chance to fool anyone who is not already a western puppet. Russia and the rest of the world is not stupid. Russia has something called honor and integrity when addressing other nations. Not like the US who gets Colin Powel to give an impressive act of a lie in-front of the UN, over WMDs in Iraq. The US have been the bad guys for how long. And suddenly when they are on your side everything is perfect and legitimate. Your garbage. This group of western backed leaders now in Ukraine have little legitimacy, the parliament that is supposed to represent all of Ukraine, including eastern Ukraine is a farce.
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:02 PM   #101
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vlad i think you hit the nail on the head. crimea is gone. win win for russia i'm not sure, crimea has already cost russia over 70 billion USD in asset reinvestment to try to prop up the ruble, as well as huge losses in stock market valuations. also its not "the" ukraine. just ukraine.

south, shut the **** up. name ONE country on russia's side in this. even china wont come out in support of russias actions. you're so full of shit i can smell it from here.
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:02 PM   #102
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ahsm, you sound just like RT. You just blindly believe everything that is coming from the pro new government side. Do you know how I know that? This comment



Please do a little research before blindly believing everything you see online.

My two cents on the whole issues.

Ukraine can forget about Crimea, it's gone. It might not be recognized by anyone as a Russian republic/an independent states, but Russia doesn't give a shit. In fact, I believe that is exactly what Russia wants. The reason is that a country with a territory dispute can not join EU and/or NATO.
So after all this, Russia gets Crimea and a guarantee that Ukraine will not join EU and NATO. Even with all the sanctions EU/US can impose on Russia it's a win situation for Russia.

The whole situation is game of chess where Russia and US are playing for their own interests. They do not give a shit what's good for the Ukraine. Ukraine is just a pawn on that chessboard. Both US and Russia are using hypocrisy and double standards to defends their actions and accuse each other.
I will find the video later of Putin explaining Russia's position as the protests began. Let us not forget this started over EU pressure on Yanukovich to join their trade association agreement. Russia or Putin "intervened" and offered their own trade agreement. In the video I will find later, Putin states this offer was because of the hardship that Ukrainians would undergo under those Troika/IMF/neoliberal ideological loans that the EU association would bring. EG, privatization of public goods, downsizing of government, financialization of economy, deregulation etc. Austerity for the people, increased living expenses. Really only favors the bourgeoisie this neo-liberal ideology. So I wouldn't really say that Putin has zero care for Ukrainian people.

Strategically, Ukraine, Russia will never let any other power have. Crimea is for sure Russia's. Legitimately or illegitimately it doesn't even matter. We got Pro Russian defense groups, we got pro Russian civilians, we got pro Russian parliament, then of course we got a few thousand soldiers stationed in the bases in Crimea. Sanctions yeah, pretty useless, could even hurt the west more than Russia. Russia and China are looking to start trading with each other not using the dollar. What is pretty horrible to not see in western media is how the US and NATO agreed at the end of the Cold War not to expand NATO eastward, and thats exactly what they did and now they are trying to take Ukraine
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:03 PM   #103
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no one gives a **** about your videos of putin. shut the **** up.
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:27 PM   #104
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LMAO you show articles from Russia Today very pro Russian state controlled media outlet. You are saying the Russian thugs didn't start the shit in donetsk? You're ****ed in the head dude. What's your background? Are you Ukrainian? How did you become such a big expert on the situation in Ukraine.

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Old 03-14-2014, 08:50 PM   #105
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LMAO you show articles from Russia Today very pro Russian state controlled media outlet. You are saying the Russian thugs didn't start the shit in donetsk? You're ****ed in the head dude. What's your background? Are you Ukrainian? How did you become such a big expert on the situation in Ukraine.

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yeah let me just climb down this latter looking at the big picture and address your donetsk question with a question that goes back to the big picture. Here is a question. If the new ppl in power in Kiev represent all the people then why is eastern and southern Ukraine holding rallies in their cities with the Russian flag. Did these eastern and southern people participate in the Kiev protest? If not, then there is at least a political division within the country. I would rather watch RT news, than Ukrainian news, or western news that picks up on what Ukrainian news says. Its the equivalent of me watching Telesur rather than Venezuelan news. Now the west and new ppl in Kiev are trying to spin this to their favor. Your small example of one incident in Donetsk with a Russian Nazi starting shit, EVEN IF IT IS TRUE, doesn't capture the situation. For every Russian Nazi starting shit, I bet there is a hundred that are Ukrainian Pro Europeans starting shit against Eastern and Southern Ukrainians. Now of course media outlets that on either side report what suites their side. So we hear about speculations and incidents like this "donetsk" one but not the other ones in Kharkov that RT reports http://rt.com/news/ukraine-kharkov-radicals-attack-982/.

Why? because the west and the new ppl in power want the world to think that they are democratic, they are legitimate, and all the aggression is due to Russia and its "agents". Well they have alot of agents, lots of pro Russians or anti western Ukrainians in south and east. So western media isn't fooling me. As for your other questions, like I said read this whole thread. Go through a timeline. Start at February 21st agreement with Yanukovich and opposition, that was signed off on by EU states, with Russia present. Show me international law that recognizes a government that gets into power in this manner. Show me the parliament which is supposed to represent all of Ukraine, including the south and east, and tell me why they are voting just like western Ukraine. Then tell me why the people in the south and east are flying anti euro flags and pro russian ones.
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